cyuThe German Rhineland-Palatinate State Parliament has ditched X (Twitter) in favour of open-source decentralised Mastodon
This is great news. Algorithm optimized social networks are poison to society.
glacierIf algorithms are are not the default option and are not designed to generate profit for platforms and advertisers, then perhaps they could be a healthy way to discover new content
10EXP- Need to allow some level of user customisability.
Uranium3006I'd run my own frontend aginst the API that ranks a large number of posts from the last 24 hours in terms of personal relevance
Such an algorithm has to run server-side, since it needs access to the full database of content.
It would be possible to allow users to upload their own algorithms (for example via Web Assembly), but I don’t know about any service that allows for that.
tsonfeirWait, are we calling AI, “algorithms” again?
amkiAn algorithm suggesting things you might like doesn’t have to be AI. There are simple metrics to achieve that (e.g. things other people who liked this also liked)
Bubble sort is now a sentient AI
If (trending) callitai();
ripcordPeople keep calling algorithms AI, so probably
TJA!Every social network uses algorithms to show you content. Even mastodon
ChaoticNeutralCzechAt that point, you could say that almost all technology does. Even a 1950’s elevator with relay logic runs a literally hard-wired algorithm.
We call it AI in 2023 ;)
That’s nice but @[email protected] doesn’t
Even if that algorithm is simply “sort by date” or “reposted by your followers”
One algo there's a desperate need for on mastodon is "all the posts by a given user in chronological order but no boosts"
Draconic NEOVery much agree, I want to find all their posts but without the boosts, it almost makes me not want to boost things because I worry that people aren’t going to be able to find my post if they want to reply to me.
The most expensive part is probably “not blocked by the user”, which X recently got rid of.
The Algorithm is such a nebulous term. All programs are algorithms, all it means is a set of unambitious instructions. I don’t think half the people that use it even really know what they mean by it except whatever big tech are doing.
I am kinda sad that the word has now been tainted this way and wish there was another word for a content recommender that’s only goal it to keep users on the platform for as long as possible so as much money as possible can be made from them.
Shall we work on writing the algorithms to making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? That’s always a fun one to explain the concept.
topinambour_rexThat would be a procedure
it’s not profit driven, tho.
It’s kind of frustrating because people who don’t understand programming or how the internet works are using algorithm to refer exclusively to the ones used by big tech, with machine learning based on user choices and whatever data they feed it to trick users into staying engaged longer.
Though algorithms are any program or sorting routine, however most people don’t understand this and they just think (even if they’re not willing to tell you) that algorithm just means magic or something like that because they’re imagining the machine learning ones they don’t understand that the simple algorithms like sorting by new or most popular are still algorithms.
CorganaYeah but you know what he meant. There’s algorithms and “The Algorithm”. IMO it’s the focuso on precision in language that makes excellent FOSS programmers into terrible prolestitizers
Bobby TurkalinoI mean I know this is painfully pedantic but even simply sorting by new is algorithmic
So is anything a programmable computer does.
The implied difference is if someone or even you know how the algorithm works, which for “new” is relatively straightforward.
Yeah
SELECT TOP(100) POSTS ORDER BY DATEPOSTED
Is a relatively straight forward command to a database and hell, I’m guessing extremely readable by your average Joe.
If you’re talking SQL, it would be
SELECT * FROM posts ORDER BY dateposted LIMIT 100.
There are a lot of flavors of SQL each with their own syntax. I’ve been using Microsoft’s SQL now for 3 years and the syntax I used is correct for that.
When people say algorithms on social media they usually never refer to the simple everyday algorithms that are easy to understand, they always use that word to refer to the proprietary ones designed to feed you content based on machine learning and data fed to them by the company.
Though yes sorting by new, or activity, or even by vote count is still in algorithm, just a much simpler one that almost never employs machine learning.
Yeah exactly, most people understand to some degree that they are being manipulated by ““The Algorithm”” and would like an alternative service. Explaining to someone that “actually all sorting is technically algorithmic” is not the way to make a new Mastodon convert.
I’m aware. my comment was more for the folks who don’t know that an algorithm is simply a set of steps to achieve something specific
You say from Lemmy which is algorithm based.
shrugalI think “algorithm” refers to personalized sorting and recommendations in this case, so using your data to prioritize posts that keep you on the site. That’s not what any of the Fediverse apps are doing.
Nothing wrong with that. The Masotodon server can pool the popular/trending posts and push them to your feed if it’s relevant, aka if you follow accounts that follow, or follow a hashtag. It already has to access your information to have the feed work at all obviously, personality just means it makes more complicated decisions from the information is already has.
The key difference is if it does what I told it to do (e.g. gather popular posts with tags I follow) or if it uses my usage data to figure out what would keep me engaged. The former is perfectly fine imo, the latter can become manipulative very quickly.
Well then ask yourself who’s doing the manipulation? The instance owner? The open source devs who make the engagement algo?
The open source devs are going to be in line with keeping it transparent and healthy while still keeping it entertaining, so there’s already checks and balances right there to prevent it becoming an issue. There is no venture capitalists to corrupt it either, so there’s no incentive to make it malicious and the community gets to tweak it to make it balanced. That also means anyone can check to see how it works. Also they can add options for the user to tweak it.
If you don’t like it, then the current option of new posts/boosts in order will always be enabled, so this would be a completely optional separate feed and not affect you if you don’t like it. No need to police others and decide they don’t deserve to have this implemented as an optional sort, and it’s not replacing your current feed.
If a instance somehow maliciously manipulates the algo, then that’s the beauty of decentralization right there, you’re free to swap. The problem with other social media algos is they’re corrupted by venture capitalist and they’re centralized so you have no say in how it works. Both these issues don’t apply to Mastodon.
Interesting idea I had, maybe there might be some merit in allowing experienced users to build their own engagement algorithms for their personal profiles.
They could also share their code with others who might want to use it. In that situation nobody’s creating any manipulative algorithms, they’re just doing it for themselves or for each other.
They can also tweak it individually to their preferences.
Of course since it would definitely require experience it’s more a nice optional thing to have, not a necessity.
I’m not strictly against personalized recommendations (hence why I said it “can” become manipulative), and you’re making some good points. But I do think it’s a very dangerous game to be playing.
It almost certainly requires collecting and storing very personal usage data, and it can influence people’s mood and behaviour depending on what the algorithm is optimizing for (e.g. showing you stuff that makes you angry or ashamed). For that reason I think it’s not just a matter of letting it loose on people. It needs to be very well communicated and explained (e.g. things like “we are showing you this because …”), so people stay in control of their own actions.
Imo it’s a bit like slot machines. Just fine for most people most of the time, but it can drag you down a dark path if you’re vulnerable for whatever reason.
MereoThat’s really good news. I hope all governments will do the same. Right now, I only use Twitter to receive notifications from government agencies.
The Dutch government also launched their own mastodon instance recently at social.overheid.nl. Several government departments have already joined. I hope politicians will also make the move, although I do not know if this specific instance allows for accounts other than those of government departments.
When you make public announcements as a politician or political party, it should be done via a channel that can be accessed without registration!
cpresslandIn my terrible attempt and translating to German… “einer von uns, einer von uns, einer von uns”!
SpeziSuchtelThats translation is actually perfectly fine
DefinitelyNotBirdsI’m thrilled to see companies shifting to Mastodon from Twitter. Mastodon’s decentralized nature and open-source foundation provide a healthier and more meaningful online experience compared to Twitter’s chaotic, ad-driven environment.
This is an amazing sign. Governments joining a particular social media is an underrated sign of platform success. People want to reach and hear from their government officials. I don’t think it will be long before this will no longer be big news
SubArcticTundraHopefully it spreads throughout the German government
duviobazThe German state already has its own instance (social.bund.de). Our federal commissioner for data protection and freedom of information already recommended our chancellor to switch to Mastodon, but he declines every time and his office insists on putting screenshots of his tweets on their website.
RedjardHow does one write an article about it and then not even mention the instance nor link to their profile?
This has likely happened because the german government created the social.bund.de instance earlier this year, paving the way for various government things in germany to simply request an account and be set up.
This is great to see. Honestly I think software that governments invest into should be exclusively open source. It is paid for by the public’s money after all, so it should be offered back to the public.
This has likely happened because the german government created the social.bund.de instance earlier this year
The instance is almost 3.5 years old btw, which you can easily see from the instance admin account @[email protected] . It just wasn’t used by many government departments at the time, mostly the data protection agency and the BSI. The @[email protected] account itself is pretty old too. It dates back to before the whole Twitter debacle. I guess that’s also part of the reason why they decided to go full Mastodon, since they already have a lot of experiences with it.
Disgusted_TadpoleHey, I just started using Mastodon and my experience for now is a bit mixed. I must be doing something wrong.
I don’t follow people yet but only subjects (#). Thing is, my feed isn’t really interesting. I come across german, asian, spanish posts (I’m looking for french and english content) and the vast majority of them isn’t “retweeted” (boosted ?) or even “liked”. Most aren’t interesting to be quite honest and I don’t like browsing my feed. Would love to know what do I do wrong !
That’s just mastodon for you, since it has no algo. You’ll get gaslighted into being told this is good despite being continued to be bored. Unfortunately what you described is the Mastodon experience currently.
Hm, that’s too bad. Though it shows the incredible powers those algorithms have. Mastodon has been utterly bland for me but I’m not ready to give up yet.
You got to follow a bunch of people before it starts to feel worthwhile, see if anybody you know from outside of Mastodon has a profile there, or open up different instances and check out people there.
If you want you can even follow people and Communities (though on Mastodon they’re called groups) from Lemmy and reply to them from Mastodon (it is a little bit clunky). Though for best results you should try and follow people on Mastodon, since people who they follow also have a chance of showing up in your feed.
Yeah, I found out Lemmy and Mastodon are somehow related (when I, for example, came across my own Lemmy account on Mastodon).
Thanks for the tips
I feel it is a bit of a reality check in that most people actually just post mundane stuff, while certain other sites purposely promote all the rage bait and controversial topics instead, which somewhat distorts your potential world view.
I think the value in Mastodon rn is getting away from the algo. I think the lack of one does limit its marketability though. I never really liked Twitter but I know a lot of people who do who hate mastodon because of how complicated it feels and the lack of content.
I never felt it was too complicated, though the people unfamiliar with decentralization definitely get confused by the process of on boarding. The lack of content is still the issue for a lot of reasons. Mastodon’s search is straight up broken. Also it doesn’t show federations of users you’re following, it can definitely extend it’s social graph a lot more. They intentionally nerf it for dumb reasons thinking it somehow marginalizes people, it makes no sense.
Lemmy does do this and is why it feels a lot more exciting on Lemmy. It’s also why I pretty much abandoned Mastodon since most of my time is on Lemmy at this point.
Cryptic FawnYou’ll get gaslighted into being told this is good despite being continued to be bored.
Or maybe people just have to learn to build their own feed. It’s honestly not hard.