Lost In TechAug 25, 2023
Reviewing the K1 Max and also reviewing the K1 again! https://youtu.be/VCzsSCN95Tg
Introducing The Creality K1 Max! (And how is the K1 after 100+ hours?)

YouTube
Show threadMichael K Johnson

@lostintech So, Creality still violating open source licenses.

Qidi didn't do a perfect job of how they released the sources but at least they appear to have done so on a timely basis.

I ordered the Qidi X-Max3 instead of the K1 Max, and Qidi honoring the open source license terms was a major factor in this decision. Ordering the Creality would be a slap in the face to everyone who has contributed to all the software Creality are currently using in violation of license terms.

Aug 25, 2023 at 9:53pmWeb
Show threadKyle DavisAug 25, 2023

@mcdanlj @lostintech I was critical of qidi and their lack of source nor root on the SBC, but I understand those are resolved?

The K1 Max is appealing, but I’d yeah, that OSS compliance is a no-go. I’m actually curious if -any- 3d printing manufacturer has an OSPO (or really anyone looking after open source concerns). I kind of doubt it.

Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@linux_mclinuxface @mcdanlj I've not been keeping up with the qidi situation tbh. I think it's worth waiting for creality to see what they actually do.
Show threadKyle DavisAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @mcdanlj so, I think there is a massive misunderstanding of what is going on here.

In your video you say “it’s also still closed source although creality is going to be releasing the code soon.”

No, it’s not closed source.

It’s open source software (Klipper), Creality is not following the license of that software. You can’t just do this when you get around to it.

It’s like taking a piece of candy from a store and saying you’ll pay later.

Show threadGary DuVall 🦭Aug 25, 2023

@linux_mclinuxface @lostintech @mcdanlj

It’s probably worth noting that Creality had an AMA about 10 days ago to talk about their intentions and what they plan to release. Not that it was marketed enough for awareness, but it’s something. https://old.reddit.com/r/Creality_3D_Official/comments/15o7h1o/ama_i_am_ralf_luo_the_rd_director_from_creality/

[AMA] I am Ralf Luo, the R&D Director from Creality. Ask Me Anything about the K1 Series OPEN SOURCE!

**Notice that this is a warm-up and the comment section won't turn on until 16th Aug 9:00 AM EDT.** Hello everybody. I'm so thrilled to conduct...

reddit
Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@aspectcontext @linux_mclinuxface @mcdanlj wasn't this the guy who hinted at an AMS for the k1🤣 I had loads of people ask me about this. (It's not a thing!)
Show threadGary DuVall 🦭Aug 25, 2023

@lostintech @linux_mclinuxface @mcdanlj

Sam Prentice is over there right now and there were…some hints about something to that effect on his stream at Creality HQ. My take is it’s a separate printer they’re working on, but someone in the K1 FB group is currently getting a 3D Chameleon a shot since there are now fittting brackets for it. Not that I have any clue how that’ll look/work/compromise the closed chamber.

Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023

@linux_mclinuxface @lostintech As far as I can tell, Qidi has released full source. They didn't do it in the best way, by forking; they just uploaded a bundle of files. But it would be possible to work out what they changed, and they did at least release the files. And I thought they did it before or contemporaneously with selling the printer?

Given that they sent a new emmc to one reviewer who updated Klipper (don't remember who) it must be possible (though, without merging, a temporarily bad idea).

I'll find out more when my Qidi arrives...

Creality doubling down on their license violation and calling their changes to open source their own proprietary work is appalling and immoral as well as illegal. Making a mistake is one thing, everyone does that. But defending it and refusing to fix it? That's just not OK.

Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface I did actually point this out in the first video and refer back to it in this one. I've made the situation quite clear I think.
Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @linux_mclinuxface I watched the video, in fact in part to learn whether you had heard any news about Creality honoring the license terms that they are required under law to do, regardless of whether any license holders actually try to take them to court.

Thank you for mentioning it!

I do think that you are taking it easy on them, not calling them out for violating the terms of the license, rather just expressing hope that they stop breaking the law.

As @linux_mclinuxface says, what they are doing now is like stealing and promising to pay back later. It's not OK with physical goods, and it's not OK with software either.

Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface ultimately it's down to the klipper development team and the licence holders to decide whether or not to pursue this, and if they so much as contact me directly with a stance they want me to take, I will be very happy to open a dialogue.
I don't think it's in any way fair to accuse me of "taking it easy" on them, I'll be frank. I'm one of the more outspoken content creators, and I find I get nothing but further criticism for my efforts. *Folded arm emoji*.
Show threadKyle DavisAug 25, 2023
@lostintech @mcdanlj it’s not just the Klipper folks though. It’s everyone in the dependency tree. Like, there is a non zero (but tiny) chance there is *my* code running on that machine.
Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @linux_mclinuxface This is where we differ.

As the recipient, you are entitled to the source.

The only way that you might not be entitled to the source is if you literally work for them, which I rather think is not the case. ☺

https://klipper.discourse.group/t/creality-violating-klipper-license/8990?u=mcdanlj

Creality responded to a request that they comply with the license with "We would like to inform you that the information in question is confidential and cannot be divulged to anyone outside our organization without proper authorization."

Kevin said "Klipper is licensed under the GNU GPLv3 ... Any redistribution of that code is required to follow the license. I have not dual-licensed the code nor provided any exceptions."

Why should Kevin have to reach out to you to say that yes, not only should open source licenses be honored every other time, but this time too? That seems like a stretch.

"Nothing but further criticism" — I wasn't starting out trying to criticize you in the first place! I was criticizing Creality. My initial response said nothing about you at all. Since then, I've merely disagreed with you whether "hoping" that they comply with the licenses is taking it easy on them.

Creality violating Klipper license?

As far as I know, the new Creality K1 printer comes with a modified version of Klipper. Since Klipper is released under the GPLv3 license, Creality would be obliged to provide the source code as well, including all of their modifications. I could not find the source code online, so I asked the Creality support. I got a quite fast answer (next day): Dear customer, I’m sorry, the source code of K1 is not open yet. I was expecting something like this, still I replied stating once more that the...

Klipper
Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface I'm not even tangentially involved in the legal side of open source so I'm also very aware that I'm speaking outside of my wheelhouse as Kyle pointed out... getting information wrong or misinforming is also a huge danger.
Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface I don't think qidi has released cura source, have they released prusaslicer source since they recently adopted that too?
Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @linux_mclinuxface https://github.com/QIDITECH/QIDISlicer (based on prusa-slicer) has been out there for a few months.

https://github.com/QIDITECH/Qidi-Print (based on Cura) has been there at least since last year.

I haven't tested building either; I just see both there.

Qidi very annoyingly don't preserve history, they just upload copies of source code to fairly minimally comply. That's annoying and bad practice and they should be encouraged to do it right.

But at least they are following the license terms as far as I can tell.

GitHub - QIDITECH/QIDISlicer: QIDISlicer gets your 3D printing easier and faster.

QIDISlicer gets your 3D printing easier and faster. - GitHub - QIDITECH/QIDISlicer: QIDISlicer gets your 3D printing easier and faster.

GitHub
Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface I guess maybe there's mimimal evidence out there of how much effort it took for all of us (the cura team and many content creators, self included) to get qidi to publish the cura source, a lot happened behind the scenes. Glad to see they eventually did, but this is a perfect example of how we can work with manufacturers constructively to solve these problems.
Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @linux_mclinuxface Thank you, then, for that work! ❤️

Creality seems to do this over and over, though. Isn't that disheartening?

Show threadLost In TechAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface I've had extended discussions on discord about why creality do the things they do, and honestly, none of it makes sense. But personally? No, not really. I make content, if they wish that content to be about how they've hidden klipper, that's their prerogative 😅
Show threadKyle DavisAug 25, 2023

@lostintech @mcdanlj Humm. Never looked into Cura before. It’s LGPL-3 (… that’s a choice). So it depends how qudi uses the source. I suspect they would need to release it (but I’m not a lawyer)

https://fossa.com/blog/open-source-software-licenses-101-lgpl-license/amp/

Open Source Software Licenses 101: The LGPL License - FOSSA

The LGPL open source software license is a member of the GPL family, but with some significant differences from its stronger copyleft counterparts.

Dependency Heaven
Show threadPelle WessmanAug 25, 2023
@linux_mclinuxface @mcdanlj @lostintech I don't think #Prusa has a separate #OSPO, but #OSS and #OSHW has been at the core of their business from the start? Maybe they are not as great at it anymore, but still pretty good?
Show threadMichael K JohnsonAug 25, 2023
@voxpelli @linux_mclinuxface @lostintech I thought that their "cut here to void warranty and take over your control board" solution was at least not terrible. They released the source code and gave you a way to put it in place without taking on support costs for user error, which seemed balanced to me.
Show threadKyle DavisAug 26, 2023

@voxpelli @mcdanlj @lostintech it’a spotty: they have done good (even great) with the #OSHW aspect then their is recent blog posts though.. yikes.

(And I recall some issues w/ marlin contributions while back)

Show threadamdAug 25, 2023
@mcdanlj @linux_mclinuxface @lostintech Very curious to hear your review of the X-Max3 when you receive it!
Show threadNeil Darlow   Aug 26, 2023

@mcdanlj @lostintech The only way to get license compliance from manufacturers (of any product) is to keep calling them out.

Many end-users just see the product and have no idea of software license terms or open source ethics.

To be honest, another issue looming is the increasing use of proprietary technology on these printers. Parts replacement and planned-obsolescence will be in the hands of the manufacturer.

And, what of warranties? With the prices being charged for some higher-tier machines there should be an expectation of good after-sales and support services.