anar

Why is it frowned upon here to 'steal' content from reddit?

https://lemmy.ml/post/3716169

Why is it frowned upon here to 'steal' content from reddit? - Lemmy

If anything, shouldn’t it be encouraged, and even automated? I’m including even the ‘old’ stuff from reddit here. Reddit shouldn’t be the absolute owner of the content submitted by users. When I migrated here, it wasn’t because of me being against reddit users, but being against reddit the company. Copying the content here actually hurts the company in sense that they don’t get to then gatekeep the crowdsourced content.

Aug 22, 2023 at 3:54pmWeb
Show threadMillieAug 22, 2023

It’s not that people think content from Reddit is stealing, it’s that we don’t want our feeds polluted with bots autoposting bullshit.

Why would we want a whole copy of Reddit? Reddit is a toxic pit.

Show threadkersplooshAug 22, 2023
We’re trying to create something new here, not be a mirror or an archive of Reddit.
Show threadJoBoAug 22, 2023

Most content that gets posted on social media is ‘stolen’ from another social media site. That’s not really an issue.

But there are bots posting up threads from subs like AITA (complete with links to Reddit) where there’s no point engaging with a non-existent OP, so the threads do not get any engagement. And they often get posted in massive batches so it fucks up your feed too.

Lemmy needs to develop its own culture and that is made harder by people trying to make it a mirror of Reddit.

Show threadCarterH739Aug 22, 2023
Came here to say this as well. I don’t mind “stolen” content. That’s the only way I’ll ever see it, as Lemmy is the only media I usually pay any attention to. The links though are obnoxious. I have zero interest in following it to reddit, and as you said, there’s no engagement here. It’s a waste of space.
Show threadamioAug 22, 2023
Also, as long as it links there, it serves the completely ass-backwards purpose of actually providing Reddit with extra traffic. Probably not a lot though, I guesss.
Show threadjballsAug 22, 2023

I’ve been struggling with this. I have been posting a lot to the [email protected] community to try to get it going. At one point, I thought “these are just links to deals, wouldn’t it be easier to have a bit steal them from Reddit?”

But then I realized that while the links to deals have some value, it’s really the community and discussion that provides value. Would you rather have a bot creating a hundred posts a day with no comments? Or a few posts made by actual people with whom you can ask questions or have a discussion?

Show threadYoBuckStopsHereAug 22, 2023
People think Lemmy should be Reddit, but when Treads Federates it will be something very different. I fully expect that Threads users will very quickly subscribe into LW communities and thus we will be something much bigger than reddit ever dreamed.
Show threadJoBoAug 22, 2023
Threads may or may not federate with Mastodon. It has not announced any plans to mimic Kbin and handle Lemmy as well.
Show threadcubedsteaksAug 23, 2023

Threads

the app that’s integrated with instagram is gonna federate with lemmy? why and how?

Show threadAFK BRB ChocolateAug 22, 2023
This is correct. It’s worth noting that there are some communities that it’s probably fine for. If you’re posting news, memes or gifs, it doesn’t matter where they give from and it’s a much different thing than posting a question. But there are reams of bot-posted content in discussion communities that have zero comments and end up reducing engagement when people see all those.
Show threadnewIdentityAug 22, 2023
I don’t see it that way. I think it’s also a problem with meme posts being automatically copied over. I really like the engament and like to interact with the community. Reading and writing comments is why I’m on a forum style website. And I wrote A LOT of them
Show threadAFK BRB ChocolateAug 22, 2023

I’m also a prolific commentor. I’m unlikely to comment on something like an AITA post that was copied from elsewhere by a bot, but that hesitation doesn’t apply if it’s like a news item or a meme. Maybe if there are suddenly hundreds in a row I’d be less likely.

Even on Reddit, much of that kind of content originated on Facebook, Twitter, or whatever.

Show threadnewIdentityAug 22, 2023
Sure, but it’s bad if theres more content that the users can comment on. It gets boring after a while
Show threadLazaroFilmAug 22, 2023
On the other hand. I se no issues with spamming Reddit with Lemmy links to posts.
Show threadJoBoAug 22, 2023
Exactly. Don’t shit on your own doorstep. Shitting on theirs is fine.
Show threadLazaroFilmAug 22, 2023

And of course. Looks like Reddit blocks Lemmy links.

lemmy.world/post/3629395

Does Reddit block Links to Lemmy.World? - Lemmy.world

Does Reddit block Links to Lemmy.World? I just wanted to post a link in a Reddit Answer. To my utter surprise the message was not shown to other people. I as the author could see it without any hint it would be invisible. But everyone else couldn’t see it. It just wasn’t there, even an direct linkt didn’t help. Editing the message didn’t help either. I had to delete it and rewrite it without mentioning “lemmy.world” in the message. Here is a workaround where I avoid a link and it works: Reddit Post without Link Workaround [https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/15up4fz/the_screechers/jxak008/?context=3] Reddit Post with Link [https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/15up4fz/the_screechers/jxalbzl/?context=3] Edit 1: To make myself clear again, you should see at least one message without a link and one with a link to Lemmy. But you will only see the one without a link. The trigger seems to be the exact word “lemmy.world”. Is that a known problem? Edit 2: Wow, this goes deeper. A fresh Edge browser does show the link post. A old Edge browser doesn’t. All browsers with strict privacy settings don’t show the link. Firefox in Private Mode and with Adblock doesn’t show it. Edge and Chrome in private mode don’t show it either. A fresh chrome doesn’t show it. An older Installation of Chrome does. Reddit is doing something very strange. Edit 3: https://lemmy [https://lemmy](dot)world/post/3375662 seems to bypass the filter. So it is true: Reddit filters their biggest competitor. Edit 4: The Shadow-Ban doesn’t seem to work on r/help but definitely on r/hfy.

Show threadMoobythegoldensockAug 22, 2023

If all you want is a clone of reddit, you can just go to reddit.

Lemmy is its own community with its own users and culture that will develop over time. Let it grow organically rather than trying to make it reddit Jr.

Show threadPonyOfWarAug 22, 2023
I think “stealing” from reddit is fine, but the automated stuff sucks. Lemmy isn’t just supposed to be a carbon-copy of reddit. Having everything flooded with reddit posts would lead to Lemmy just being a dead “Reddit archive” without original content or engagement. Just look at places like /c/[email protected] , completely dead. Lemmy doesn’t even have the userbase to actually engage with such a large amount of content and having thousand of bot posts will be incredibly detrimental to the community.
Show threadMillieAug 22, 2023
This. I literally block every bot and every bot-infested community.
Show threadMatch!!Aug 22, 2023
And besides, why and how would I fucking Ask Reddit on lemmy?
Show threadRottcoddAug 22, 2023
Because it’s basically saying that you’re so dull or lazy or unimaginative that you can’t even manage to come up with a post of your own, and so pathetic and needy that you’re going to go copy someone else’s.
Show threadidiomaddictAug 22, 2023
Or you enjoyed a post and thought others might as well. I was picturing memes, not shower thoughts for posts, so that was a little jarring to read
Show threadCarlos SolísAug 22, 2023
The Fediverse has a tighter consensus on the importance of consent than social media in general. It is frowned upon to take content from other people without consent, or to make it available on public contexts when it's intended to be private to a specific group. That is why the content that comes from Reddit / Twitter / Facebook / Instagram / etcetera should be available from users that willingly cross-post it themselves.
Show threadcommieAug 22, 2023
imho it’s fine to copy it here but i’d prefer if you scrubbed all references to its origin including usernames.
Show threadBlazeAug 22, 2023

I manually take content from Reddit.

I select myself what content to copy, so it’s not like bots than tend to spam things.

Feedback seems pretty good so far.

Show threadmagnetosphere Aug 22, 2023
That’s because you’re doing it right. You’re not just some reddit spambot.
Show threadRentlarAug 22, 2023
The biggest thing is talking to people about their thoughts on a subject. Bots can’t do that (…yet?)
Show threaddonutsAug 22, 2023

As long as you aren't claiming that you've made something that someone else made, I don't see a problem with it.

If you happen to see a news story break on Reddit, I hope you will post it here.

Show threadNoProAug 22, 2023

Reddit shouldn’t be the absolute owner of the content submitted by users.

That should be for the user in question to decide, shouldn't it?

Show threadmagnetosphere Aug 22, 2023

Morality doesn’t matter. Internet content has been copied and posted to other sites since before reddit existed. Copyright is frequently ignored, if not mocked outright.

A user should assume that anything they post could wind up anywhere. If someone doesn’t want something to be copied elsewhere, they should make it clear and obvious is the post, or better yet, not post it at all.

Show threadRadDevonAug 22, 2023

Cars are frequently stolen when parked outside. Private ownership of cars is ignored if not openly mocked by car thieves. If you park your own car outside, you should assume it will be stolen. So make sure to always post a sign on your car whenever you park it outside reading “This car is mine. Please do not steal it,” if you don’t want it to be stolen, or better yet, don’t park it outside at all.

It’s a bad take. It’s not how ownership works. You have copyright protection by nature of the fact that you created a piece of content. You’re not required to remind people of that fact in order to be protected, even if random internet person asserts that you should in their social media post.

That’s not the only reason it’s bad though. The idea that “I don’t like the way Reddit is treating their users, so to get back at Reddit… I’m going to violate the rights of the very same users I claim have been wronged by copying their content and posting it somewhere without their consent” is just baffling to me. You’re banking on the fact that random internet user probably won’t sue you… and you’re probably right! By taking advantage of that situation, you’re not “pwning Reddit.” You’re taking advantage of the person who created it in the first place. Ironically, if Reddit had further abused the situation by not just creating the honeypot where people would create free content for them but also by claiming ownership of that content, you’d have a cease and desist in a matter of days once your bot went live and we wouldn’t have to see this same question posted 2-3x a week on Lemmy.

I’m no intellectual property crusader. It’s messed up that corporations can consolidate intellectual property to the extent they have and extend copyrights for generations. It’s wild that we grant trademarks on vague ideas and then allow trolls to build businesses that do nothing but hold them and use them as weapons against people trying to actually make things. But if anyone should have the benefit of copyright protection, it’s the lowly internet user who posts content for free on social media for your entertainment.

Show threadmagnetosphere Aug 22, 2023
I never thought I’d experience the “you wouldn’t download a car” argument personally.
Show threadsome_guyAug 22, 2023

You still haven’t, mate.

Did you read what he wrote or just the first 2 sentences before you thought up that line and clicked reply?

Show threadmagnetosphere Aug 22, 2023
It’s just not worth debating. If I post something online, it’s only reasonable for me to expect that someone might steal it. It doesn’t matter what my personal preferences or ethics are.
Show threadRadDevonAug 22, 2023

I guess my example is that, isn’t it? 😅 My point is that you generally don’t have to remind people of your rights in order to enjoy them, and that’s true for copyright. Pick your own favorite right and replace my car analogy with it.

Now, I just need to find a way to compare cross-posting Reddit content without permission to the Nazis and describe Lemmy as “the Uber of ,” and I’ll have achieved the triple crown of cliche analogies. 😆

Show threadMrZeeAug 22, 2023

Lol. One recommendation: when arguing about copyright, don’t substitute physical goods for material that can be easily duplicated when making an argument. Substitute a patent? Sure. Substitute a different type of copyrighted (or copyright adjacent) material, sure. But it’s really hard to get past the fundamental difference between stealing a physical good — in which the person you’re stealing from no longer has the item — and copying a good, in which now both people have the item.

To compare stealing a car with stealing digital goods, it would go more like: how would you feel if someone snuck over and built an exact duplicate of your car and drove it away?

Show threadRadDevonAug 23, 2023

Yeah, I get it, but I figure if someone doesn’t understand why it’s a problem to blame someone for having their content stolen, they probably won’t understand why it’s wrong to blame them for having other intangibles stolen either. The transition to tangible object was intentional in hopes of bridging that gap. The only right that is exactly the same as copyright is copyright, but that analogy wouldn’t really work for someone who doesn’t understand how copyright works. 😅 It’s kinda the point of an analogy: to highlight the similarities between two things that are similar in some ways but necessarily different in others for the benefit of someone who understand the subject but not the object of the analogy.

But again, the point isn’t that car ownership is the same as copyright. That’s a (intentional, I think) misunderstanding of how analogies work. They don’t claim that every attribute of the two things being compared is the same; only that there may be enough similarity to bridge a gap in understanding. I can’t see anything so wrong with this analogy that it invalidates the point I was making with it. The point was that having the law commonly ignored doesn’t open the door for victim blaming if they don’t jump through all the hoops armchair lawyers define for them. That’s often the case when the law grants us rights: we just have them at a certain point and don’t have to do anything else. I have a right to continue owning a car that I bought. I have a right not to be punched in the face. I have a right to be involved in my children’s lives. I have a right to continue to own the works I create. These are different rights which apply to different sorts of things, but the principle is the same. If I had made any of these analogies (or any analogy period), a bad faith argument could certainly have found a trivial difference between the two… but it would have been just that: a bad faith argument based on a trivial (for the purposes of this analogy) difference.

Is stealing a Reddit post the same as stealing a car? No, because as everyone has pointed out, the car cannot easily be copied, but is violating someone’s copyright the same as violating their ownership rights over some item they purchased? Yes. When you violate someone’s right to own the car, they do not retain an identical un-violated copy of their right to own it, just the same that way when you violate their copyright, they cannot retain an identical un-violated copy of that right somehow. Both of these rights have been violated equally, and the tangibility of the object they applied to doesn’t change that.

Show threadsome_guyAug 26, 2023
One recommendation: when you tell people how they “should” talk, you sound like a jackass
Show threadCannedTunaAug 22, 2023
I think it’s kind of the same thing as Reddit users scoffing at people posting content from 9Gag (is that still a thing?) or iFunny
Show threadnewIdentityAug 22, 2023

Automatically copying content from reddit is killing user interaction. I don’t want to see thousands of shitty posts with zero comments and where OP isn’t even a human that could react so I don’t even have any intention of wringing comments

I have no problems with manually doing it though. Heck I myself do it. The difference is that I only repost what I seam to be worthy a repost.

Show threadPatAug 22, 2023

Yeah, stuff like crossposting is one thing. People do it across communities and subreddits, so may as well post stuff on both sites so you can get inputs from both userbases.

But the automatic copying stuff is too much. I blocked the lemmit bot almost as soon as it showed up because it became almost impossible to not see content that was being copied over by it.

Show threadcharlesAug 22, 2023
Yeah there’s something about the ratio of posts to active users. If it gets too high, there’s just a sea of posts with comments too diluted. A lot of subs just don’t have the users to support the same level of posts that equivalent reddit subs have.
Show threadkautauAug 22, 2023

It’s also important to remember that while the vast majority of Lemmy users by far are Reddit migrants, just because you’ve seen something before doesn’t mean someone else have. Any bit of content can make someone part of the lucky 10000:

xkcd.com/1053/

Ten Thousand

xkcd
Show threadFizzAug 22, 2023
If I see something cool I post it here. I don’t browse reddit anymore but once a month I’ll check reddit. If I see something cool I’ll post it here.
Show threadmbrysonAug 22, 2023

I think the strength of a community shouldn’t primarily be built upon content another separate community or platform produces.

Now there are givens, like major news and art which “transcends” a singular platform. But repeatedly just lifting content from somewhere else (aside from if you are the creator yourself obviously and wanting to share to different platforms) and shipping it over here isn’t a good look when Lemmy wishes to be a separate aggregator from Reddit.

Show threadRaginclooAug 22, 2023
It’s kinda beat seeing a whole wall of automated reddit reposts from bots, nobody ever comments on them. But I get that there’s some content we may wanna see among it. However, I don’t like seeing links directly to Reddit, I’m not trying to give them traffic at this time
Show threadpewgar_seemsimandroidAug 22, 2023
TRANSIT DIAGRAMS
Show threadRentlarAug 22, 2023

lemmit.online should serve your Reddit needs… I just find that automated post copiers or serial reposters don’t add value to a discussion. They never reply to comments for example.

Lemmy flourishes by being its own thing, why would it need to perpetually be in Reddit’s shadow?

Show threadruckblackAug 22, 2023
I’m fine with bots reposting images. Memes and whatever. Because the discussion is pretty irrelevant. What I’ve been seeing a lot of is bots reposting text posts. Like r/amitheasshole and the like. It pisses me off. Doesn’t make any goddamn sense, the OP isn’t here, you can’t discuss with them. And they always lack any conversation on here. It’s just spam and I report it as such.
Show threadDrQuintAug 22, 2023
We just don’t want to incentive repost bots to, well, exists.
Show threadqyronAug 22, 2023

Are you an “expat” from Reddit or are you here to stay and help Lemmy grow and be its own thing?

Answer that.

Show threadReluctantMuskratAug 23, 2023

He’s here… why does it matter?

I came here because my favorite app, Sync for Reddit, died like the other 3rd party apps. I still use reddit some because the groups I was a part of there don’t really exist here, or not with much volume anyway. Ketorecipes for instance… if I want to see new recipes frequently, I gotta go to reddit, but I wouldn’t if their content was being x-posted. If I post a recipe it’ll be here but in a recipes forum, like many other subject types, you’re more commonly a reader than a content maker. I have no doubt the small community here will grow eventually but for now it’s limited by the low subscriber/contributer count.

Can Lemmy be more/different than reddit? Sure. Can Lemmy be similar to, a replacement for and yet better than reddit? Absolutely.

Show threadNutterthebutterAug 22, 2023
Reddit will still have higher search hits and Lemmy is outmatched. Dumping content from Reddit just makes this no better than a mirror. It stops real and unique content from hitting the top and this place won’t attract new users if they can just use Reddit which at this point has the content directly and is more reliable.
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 22, 2023

I’ve seen a number of communities that are otherwise dead without Reddit reposts, and being the most subscribed community for a given topic with the latest post being months ago is definitely not going to attract new users.

It’s either don’t repost, and new users won’t join because of dead community, or repost and have some activity, and maybe new users will join. New users won’t magically join, and new content won’t magically get created.

Show threadNutterthebutterAug 22, 2023
This is unfortunately part of migrating. Not all communities can just move over. Larger ones will develop and with that side communities will start with a large enough user base. Reposting in this case still doesn’t do anything other than give you the exact same content as Reddit just now it’s without an interactive user base.
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 23, 2023

I’m not sure I agree… Or more precisely, it depends. [email protected] is an example of a community where there is value in reposting content from Reddit over, where the value is getting the coverage of deals. On Reddit, a small majority of users actively seek and share deals. If those users don’t move to Lemmy, that community is dead, period. No amount of enticement will introduce new content.

The secondary value now is that, previously, many users had to go to Reddit for that content, because that content isn’t available on Lemmy. Reposting isn’t just to kick-start user engagement, but is also a retention tool. Users don’t need to go to Reddit to fetch that info anymore.

Show threadxkforceAug 23, 2023
If all this place is is a dumping ground for Reddit content then you may as well go right to the source.
Show threadTheFririshAug 23, 2023
The problem is the UI of the source
Show threadJakeroxsAug 23, 2023
Isn’t that what a lot of reddit is anyway lol, just stuff copied from other places too
Show threadNastybutlerAug 23, 2023
The source got rid of 3rd party apps, which is why I’m here. So no, I don’t go right to that source anymore because their official app is flaming garbage. I appreciate their content however, so I’m grateful for anyone that brings it here so I can scroll through it on my phone using Sync still.