phillaholic

What started as criticism over errors in recent YouTube videos has escalated into allegations of sexual harassment, prompting the company to hire an outside investigator.

https://lemm.ee/post/4468758

What started as criticism over errors in recent YouTube videos has escalated into allegations of sexual harassment, prompting the company to hire an outside investigator. - lemm.ee

Linus Media Group CEO Terren Tong also responded via email, saying he was “shocked at the allegations and the company described” in Reeve’s posts. He went on to note that “as part of this process, beyond an internal review we will also be hiring an outside investigator to look into the allegations and will commit to publish the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise because of this.”

Aug 16, 2023 at 7:19pmWeb
Show threadAutoTL;DRAug 16, 2023

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The company has currently paused all production to improve its review processes, and CEO Terren Tong tells The Verge an outside investigator will be hired to examine the harassment allegations.

“We’ve been seeing an alarming amount of conflicts from Linus Tech Tips as it relates to their corporate connections, their flow of money, and the potential bias as a result of those things,” said Gamers Nexus host Steve Burke.

According to Gamers Nexus, Linus Tech Tips reviewed a copper cooling block from Billet Labs on the wrong GPU, then auctioned it off at a recent fan event without the company’s permission.

The afternoon after Gamers Nexus posted its video, Sebastian began responding to concerned fans in the Linus Tech Tips forums.

Reeve went on to accuse the company of barring her from videos after she reported being “grabbed multiple times in the office” and being told to “calm my tits” and “stop being such a bitch.”

He went on to note that “as part of this process, beyond an internal review we will also be hiring an outside investigator to look into the allegations and will commit to publish the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise because of this.”

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Show threadChapolinColoradoNZAug 16, 2023
good bot
Show threadMetal ZealotAug 16, 2023
Linus’ fan base drove a little boy to suicide, and the mother subsequently took her own life as well.
"You build your empire destroying lives of others": LTT fanbase's harassment allegedly forcing suicide explains Madison Suop's silence till now

Amidst ethical concerns and facing scrutiny from Gamers Nexus and the wider community, Linus Media Group was recently criticized by former employee Madison Suop.

Show threadmihntAug 16, 2023

I remember the video that this stems from. He wasn't exactly a "little boy", and I don't mean by size. I mean that he was near or at adulthood.

Linus gave up the plaque to him realizing that he had won the auction fair and square and even plugged his channel on the video.

We don't know how much Linus knew about his community doing this. Scouring the comments of Mindchop's channel shows no harassment that I can see so far. However, I do admit the harassment could have taken place through DMs and other private communication.

Show threadChariotwheelAug 16, 2023

He knew and to his credit he called his fans ojt on it and told them to delete their comments.

He tried to help the small channel by directing potential viewers to it, but misjudged how his fans would interpret him giving up on the object.

Show threadroadkillAug 16, 2023

The plugging of the channel and Linus voicing his upset about losing the plaque...

...caused his weird, creepy fanboys to target him.

How about just not saying anything about it, eh, Linus?

"This person upset me, btw here's his channel."

Show threadmihntAug 16, 2023

Yeah, you're right. When has Linus ever been known to keep his mouth shut though?
I just don't think Linus knew the scope of what he was doing at that time.
Especially with how over-the-top clickbaity LTT was back then.

Still though, everyone posting the link and calling the guy a "little boy" is misinformation at best.
Very smear campaigny.

Show threadOsrsNeedsF2PAug 16, 2023

Mindchop’s channel shows no harassment that I can see so far.

Even now his most recent video is 10:1 dislike to like ratio:

Show threadmihntAug 16, 2023
I meant verbal harassment. Votes can be from anywhere.
Show threadVakbrainAug 16, 2023
Omg that’s awful
Show threadUntouchedWagonsAug 16, 2023
Oh wow I never heard about this. That is awful.
Show threadhexaflexagonbear [he/him]Aug 16, 2023
The fanbase is insane considering it’s a slightly snarly tech review channel. Like how do you get rabid fans doing that??
Show threadMetal ZealotAug 16, 2023
Epic Gamer Move
Show threadroadkillAug 16, 2023

As I saw someone else... LTT Fans are the "the Canadian Dollar Store version of Musk Fanboys"... and yeah. I think that's apt.

Insecure weird nerds needing someone to simp for. Obsessive and creepy fanboy behavior seems to follow any public figure with a history of immature (read: misguided assumptions of what 'Alpha' is) behavior.

Show threadDarkThoughtsAug 16, 2023
Cultish tribalism like this exist for any sort of wannabe celeb.
Show threadcame_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]Aug 16, 2023

god that’s heartbreaking. i had never heard of any of this before today. what a massive implosion.

maybe i’m too dumb or old, but i cannot wrap my head around why “fans” are loyal to some sponsored content/native marketing organization like this enough to follow some kid around youtube and crap on their content. or harass someone doing their job. having to do tons of social media content professionally seems soul destroying… especially because “the bosses” only think about The Algorithm and maybe saw some SEO snakeoil pub telling them it’s better to generate 8 weak outputs than 2 strong outputs worth watching, because the “goal” is to harvest all those passive clicks and views of people who are bored out of their skull barely playing on their phone… instead of maybe targeting someone actively engaged and searching for something well made and relevant to their interests.

so you get overpaid bozos who don’t know fuck about shit leaning heavy on underpaid young people to make more internet garbage for the sake of making more internet garbage, and then later complaining that views per output are down or reactions are lukewarm or engagement is off. imagine that job and then a handful of fuckups following you around and shitting on your online presence because you’re doing what you’re told in order to have a roof over your head and food to eat and dreams of a mildly secure future.

as someone who was once idealistic and full of energy and stamina that was taken advantage of by ego-driven and deceptive exploiters: beware assholes, the rest of us can come together and build a world without a place for you in it.

Show threadJokeDeityAug 17, 2023
This doesn’t feel right. The post seems very lacking in proof, and sounds incredibly farfetched. I remember seeing the NCIX auction video and thought I recall it being a young man buying the play button, not a child, but I could certainly be remembering wrong. The source is pretty bad too, I’ve never heard of that site, were there not more reputable sites with this story? I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, and I’m certainly not a Linus Stan, but it seems really fake.
Show threadshath [comrade/them]Aug 17, 2023
give me the unsubstantiated allegations
Show threadkaduAug 16, 2023

Linus’ answer that they have channels for anonymous (or not) reporting of such issues is probably true. They probably do have those systems.

That’s not the root of the issue, though. The root is that the company is entirely managed by Linus and the friends he made way back when. They simply grew tremendously and assigned every friend one of the management roles. That’s it, that’s the company.

So regardless of the system being used - what do you do when the person you need to report is one of them? Who is going to be taking action, their best buddy?

Show threadFoxBJKAug 16, 2023

The root is that the company is entirely managed by Linus and the friends he made way back when. They simply grew tremendously and assigned every friend one of the management roles. That’s it, that’s the company.

This sounds a lot like the bro culture at Uber before they cleared house.

Show threadKilgore TroutAug 17, 2023

There is nothing wrong with a “bros” company.

Issues appear when such company starts hiring other people.

Show threadsveritAug 17, 2023

Leaked photo of said anonymous channel:

Show threadzikk_transport2Aug 17, 2023
Lmao
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 16, 2023

Wow quick and decisive action by CEO to call in external investigation. Reading Linus’ response, it doesn’t even appear that he would consider external investigation. He states that HR would conduct a thorough review. I’ll be frank, I don’t trust Colton to run the HR review.

I bet once this issue is resolved, we might see Terren bring in external subject matter experts to completely overhaul LMG business operations. HR consultants, Operations and Logistics consultants, Finance, etc. Up until now, LMG was/is run by a self-taught/self-made/learning-on-the-job crew. Can’t do that when you’re now a corp.

Show threadKecessaAug 16, 2023
Not to say Colton can’t do the job, but HR is a department that needs to be independent of all other departments and the voice of the HR manager needs to be considered more important than the voice of most of the other managers because they’re the ones dealing with the humans that make the company.
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 16, 2023
Oh exactly, he oversees many functions that are traditionally held by separate people. You can’t juggle those functions in parallel without degradation in quality and proper oversight… Which seems to be the theme over the past couple of days…
Show threadMotoAshAug 16, 2023

It is HIGHLY silly to even imply these woes are from a, “learn-on-the-job” crew/etc.

Many of the allegations are about basic factual information being wrong and a terrible work environment.

Those DO NOT naturally show up in any ol’ little work environment. They show up when there’s a lack of professionalism and basic respect for fellow humans.

Show threadgalloog1Aug 16, 2023

That culture comes from a lack of process and experience of large organizations. The second that a team grows beyond 7 people it has grown beyond the direct control of any one person and the culture takes on a life of it’s own. If not addressed early in growth, issues typically spiral and are either not caught or are allowed to exist out of a perceived necessity.

Small organizations are nimble so they do not need to formalize cultural and HR processes in the same way that large organizations do. If the leader sees something they don’t like, they address it. It isn’t just about basic respect. We all bring our own cultural issues to an organization. A lack of professionalism comes hand in hand with smaller creative organizations. That’s what makes them entertaining. It also enables the toxic tendencies of some people as they are allowed to slip in and as the pressure builds. Don’t confuse professionalism with respect.

These things don’t happen immediately either. It happens over time as people get tired and impatient so they are not on their best behavior. We all go through a storming process. That’s when toxic culture can set in if good lower level leadership doesn’t catch and address it. That takes training and a formal approach to organizational structure, not just production processes.

I am one of those outside consultants.

Show threadtherozAug 16, 2023
Well said. I’m not sure I believe this former employee either. I read the “reasons they left,” and it’s simply too unbelievable. It sounds like more of a personal cry for help than a legitimate accusation. The more I read, the more buzzwords for media I saw. And every community is reacting as those buzzwords intend.
Show threadgalloog1Aug 16, 2023
I honestly think that it doesn’t matter what we think. Perception is reality for inside the organization and outside. Let the external investigation take place. Implement policies moving forward to protect the employees, leadership, and organizational perception.
Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023
It absolutely matters. The employee chose to take accusations public, rather than following appropriate channels of either the corporate HR or legal authorities. I don’t know how it works up there in Canada, but these accusations get taken seriously in the U.S.
Show threadadrian783Aug 17, 2023

corp HR is not your friend, especially in a toxic workplace. HR or the lack thereof is what enables a toxic workplace.

if you can’t understand a victim just want it to blow over and never have to think about it again. then you’re either severely lacking in imagination, or empathy, or both.

Show threadtherozAug 20, 2023
So I guess Madison just isn’t a strong person then.
Show threadabraxasAug 16, 2023

I’m not sure I believe this former employee either. I read the “reasons they left,” and it’s simply too unbelievable

Statements from actual victims often do. That’s part of the problem with the culture of not believing, or even alienating, victims. I’m not saying it should be treated as evidence against the company, but the company absolutely should make sure this believe is not happening internally and those of us on the outside should be charitable towards this former employee’s testimony unless contradictory evidence shows up.

Using the Depp/Heard thing as a point of reference. There were good reasons to suspect her claims were fabricated or exaggerated, but I’ve also known people who have gone through many of the relationship experiences she testified about. Until she had her day in court and showed the world her (probable) dishonesty, even she deserved the benefit of charity. Or else by sheer misfortune we will start telling real victims they made it up.

Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023
Yeah. It just seems far too fabricated. For someone who is willing to share their life on social media, it seems very strange that they wouldn’t have told a single person they know about it. Then, all of a sudden, other accusations arise and - oh yeah, look at all the things that happened to me! Too many things to never have been mentioned.
Show threadabraxasAug 17, 2023

You understand that people who are victims of abuse, especially sexual abuse, are often afraid to come out, to tell anyone? What you are calling evidence of being fabricated is a symptom of abuse, and people who are trained to understand and report on those types of abuse are also trained to do so from victims who will go so far as to deny it had ever happened.

For your own benefit, please read this National Domestic Violence Hotline article on exactly why people’s loved ones never share that they have had situations worse than Reeve alleged. Yes, it’s about domestic abuse and not workplace abuse, but it is the same type of trauma and helplessness.

"Why Didn’t You Say Anything?"

Whenever abuse from a public figure comes out people ask the victims "why didn't you say anything?". Learn why talking about abuse is tough.

The Hotline
Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023

All of this just solidifies, in my mind and those who can think critically outside of a herd mentality, that this is fabrication. The accusations made didn’t happen in a family behind closed doors, they happened out in the open. Do we think that the LTT facilities don’t have cameras covering every square inch? Get with it. They record everything, I’m sure. This person didn’t go to the police because there probably isn’t anything to go to the police about.

Unless we’re all to believe that everything that happened was in the one place where cameras never went, every single time? That none of it occurred on any kind of technology that would or could be audited, right?

Use your brain brochacho. These are the fabrications of someone who is mentally unstable. Not of a victim. Unless… a victim of their own mind.

Show threadabraxasAug 17, 2023

Wow. You’re giving off some heavy misogyny vibes right now accusing me of having a herd mentality for pointing out actual symptoms of actual problems. We’re not even talking about the LTT accusation anymore, but about specific behaviors you used to decide that she was probably lying. That is the shit that makes people afraid to tell anyone when they are abused.

Do we think that the LTT facilities don’t have cameras covering every square inch?

I’ve worked at some big paranoid companies, cameras everywhere (full lockdown, fwiw), that have dealt with abuse issues. My own boss was stuck in a toxic environment regarding another coworker for MONTHS before she got the courage to speak up and deal with it. Guess what. The cameras don’t do much when a large part of the abuse is verbal and the abusive moments are just that - moments.

Thing that made me feel like shit? I witnessed some of it, and took it as consenxual because she wasn’t saying anything about it. I was young, dumb, and raised to have the same mindset you’re showing me right now.

That none of it occurred on any kind of technology that would or could be audited, right?

Not sure. I’m using Reid’s Principle of Credulity at this point and time. Should evidence come out she is lying, I will stop giving her the benefit of a respectful response. The presence of cameras at LTT’s office is not that. People are abused in front of, or around, cameras all the bloody time.

Use your brain brochacho. These are the fabrications of someone who is mentally unstable. Not of a victim. Unless… a victim of their own mind.

I’m going to give this to you straight. I’ve heard someone say basically the same thing with the same attitude about a domestic abuser. Then the “lying” victim was hospitalized. If you had lived that life experience, would you act that way?

Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023

Bottom line, beyond any contestation - the right thing to do would have been to report it to the the correct authorities; not us.

That they didn’t, alone, is enough to completely discredit the entire story. To claim ignorance, in 2023, of what should have been done is just bullshit.

What happens, then, when the storm blows over and this is all proven to be false? Are ya’ll gonna come back here and admit you were wrong? Going to start following LTT again? Nah, the herd has left and moved on. Ya’ll will pretend to be enthused by the delivery of the dude at Gamer’s Nexus, despite his content being less thrilling than simply reading the spec sheet. (Just saying, his delivery is terrible, though I respect the channel.)

If it comes out that this was all a lie, it might just be too late.

Show threadabraxasAug 17, 2023

Bottom line, beyond any contestation - the right thing to do would have been to report it to the the correct authorities; not us.

You actually think that’s easy? And how do you know she didn’t, and that they didn’t just say the same shit you did? There’s a LOT of documentation of authorities in some areas (and Az is one of those) not taking those types of complaints seriously enough, especially when made against a person of power. There’s literally been a huge outcry about it.

And if it actually happened and she finally got the courage to say it, why exactly should those who care enough to follow her NOT be made aware of it?

What happens, then, when the storm blows over and this is all proven to be false?

With that attitude, it WILL be proven to be false regardless of the facts.

Are ya’ll gonna come back here and admit you were wrong?

Wrong to give the potential victim the benefit of credulity? FUCK no. I hope she’s lying because it means she wasn’t abused, but I’m not going to add to the abuse by denying her life experience. I’m not saying we should globally cancel LTT. I’m saying we shouldn’t cancel HER, like you seem to be doing.

If it comes out that this was all a lie, it might just be too late.

You really have more sympathy for a corporate machine with their ability to hire professional troubleshooters for bad press, than a person who might have been highly abused by that corporate machine? Well there’s the disconnect.

Let me make this clear. If LTT is destroyed by her coming out, that’s on **their ** failure to be a business that can prove itself safe for workers. Note the word “prove”. If they did everything right, they would have mountains of structure and evidence to support that they are a safe environment, not people coming out of every little crack recounting consistent stories about them. If they do everything right moving forward, they change this from being a toxicity issue to an HR issue and whether or not you believe it actually happened they make sure it can’t ever happen again.

Show threadtherozAug 20, 2023

You really have more sympathy for a corporate machine

This tells me everything I need to know about you.

No matter what I say, you’ll never contest a single point; and we will never have any middle ground. So engaging with you will be a waste of time.

Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023

As a side note, I’m in the tech world for a career. Predominantly male. Perhaps predominately white, though I can’t speak to those statistics - the environment is more diverse every day. That said, I met a friend back in 2015. She’s smart, eloquent, and overall extremely talented. I’ve seen her get passed over for promotions; I’ve seen clients engage her unfairly, by making statements like, “are you getting the engineer?” Because they were expecting a man. Anyway, a lot of us in our inner circle suspected her boyfriend of physically harming her. For years. But there was never any concrete evidence. After 8 or 9 years of friendship for me, perhaps 12 or 13 for others in our circle, she cut off all contact with us. She sent a message saying, “I can’t talk to any of you, it’s not right. You are all married and I’m engaged.” She never spoke to us again. This was about 6 months ago.

Said circle, also, is not all male. 3 males, 2 or 3 female, plus spouses. One trans man and his wife. Pretty diverse in all aspects.

So anyway, 2 months ago she up and quits her job. Straight up leaves. No exit interview, no reason, nothing.

I am about 99.99% sure that she’s in some kind of mentally abusive relationship. Her boyfriend had control over her when she was at work with us. We gave her opportunities to tell us. She chose her path.

It saddens me often when I think about it. But it doesn’t affect my opinion on this LTT story…

Show threadJuneAug 16, 2023
Her entire story rings very true for my experience at a tech startup that grew from 50 employees to 500 in 3 years. It was 100% believable for me.
Show threadtherozAug 17, 2023

Me too, though I’m not female. I’ve seen some of my female friends treated poorly - by clients, though, never my org. I just don’t think it happened to this person. The fact that, well, they’ll share the whole story to the world right now - but never told anyone else while it was occurring? Seems sketch. Doesn’t jive.

That whole notion of, “I was embarrassed and couldn’t tell anyone” to suddenly pronouncing accusations to the whole world over social media; as opposed to the legal authorities… seems damned sketchy to me.

Show threadPerCaritaAug 17, 2023
Look, Madison probably talked to someone about it while it was occurring, but we’re not part of her personal support group. We don’t have that privilege and that’s ok
Show threadtherozAug 20, 2023

But we’re privy to the rest of the rant? HR or the local authorities should have been the first step. Not waiting [duration] and then shitposting.

Weak.

Show threadPerCaritaAug 21, 2023
You’d be surprised how many women don’t come forward with harassment, sexual harassment, even sexual assault cases. We often think, unfortunately, that the system is not on our side. It’s not weakness, more like mistrust and fear of being re-victimised.
Show threadCountsheepAug 17, 2023

lol what? This just sounds like ignorance to me.

It’s hard for individuals to speak up by themselves, yet we all assume we would in the same situation. This seems like a simple “Gamers Nexus says something and noted complaints by some workers of a bad environment, so now I feel I can say it without more harassment”

Did we all forgot a kid killed himself from the harassment LMG fanboys brought on them?

Show threadCrashumbcAug 16, 2023
Toxic environments can also be brought in by toxic leadership. Like a VP that intentionally pissed workers off because “they work harder”
Show threadSquare SingerAug 17, 2023

My sister once worked for a guy who’s management strategy was “Employees should be so unhappy that they are close to quitting but just content enough to not quit.”

He thought, that way he’d get the most value out of the employees.

Needless to say, his business wasn’t going well because all employees were pissed all the time and that’s not a good thing when they all have to work with customers. Also, the turnover was really high. But the boss didn’t really notice.

Show threadgalloog1Aug 17, 2023
Absolutely! The training I bring up is for the leadership at all levels. The fun challenge as a consultant is to make changes to the people who are paying you without being fired. It can be frustrating but also really rewarding when it works out.
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 17, 2023
I need to learn how you do it… I’m not in a position or authority to bring people of your expertise, so trying to make a change in my org without getting fired…
Show threadgalloog1Aug 17, 2023

Honestly, you fail a lot before you learn where the line is. You frame the training as industry best practice with a certification that they can sell. You frame them going to the training as leading the organization through it and from the front. You then let them learn and put their own spin on it during the instruction.

The real trick is getting them to think it was their idea. Start with a quantified problem statement. Your recommendations to address the problem should come with multiple courses of action that they can choose from. It helps if these COAs are framed as beneficial to the organization outside of addressing the issue. As long as they accept that the problem exists, they should address it. If your preferred COA has other organizational benefits, they’ll pick it and align behind their decision with resources.

Go look up some industry certifications and congrats, you can now be a (lower level) consultant. Congrats

Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 17, 2023
Post saved. Thank you
Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 16, 2023

Of course, there are many “learn-on-the-job” organizations that have gone forward and done amazing things.

However, while I agree that these issues don’t naturally manifest themselves and stem from unprofessionalism and basic respect, I would argue that specialists and professionals in those functions (HR, Finance, Ops, etc) can help establish policies that mitigates and discourages such behaviors. If people can’t do that voluntarily, then policies and consequences are enacted to enforce it.

This is why many companies (and I’ve worked in a few in the tens/hundred thousands of employees) have clear business conduct guideline policies and enforcement, because people who lack professionalism and basic respect for fellow humans are actually quite prevalent in any and every company. I’ve witnessed a few myself that led to immediate termination of my colleagues.

Show threadMotoAshAug 17, 2023

Oh I agree in that all those things help. I just want to push back against the idea that this is expected in a small business. It should not be.

This only happens when unqualified people become the boss of too many others. Regardless of the sequence of events, unqualified people are in charge of far, far too many businesses.

Show threadunscholarly_sourceAug 17, 2023

If I implied that this was expected in a small business, that wasn’t my intended message. I was referring to the current maturity of LMG. LMG is worth $100M, with 100+ employees, putting it in the midsize business category.

And in that league and above, it is not just expected, but required. The stakes are just too high for an unstructured/informal approach to running the business, which is what LMG is learning/about to learn, hopefully.

The sad thing is that many orgs go through these exact transitional problems, the only difference is that LMG is under the scrutinizing lens of the internet.

Show threadAssholeDestroyerAug 17, 2023
This reminds me of sexual misconduct allegations in the electronic music scene. When EDM blew up it elevated a bunch of basement dwelling computer nerds to rock star status. Musicians like Datsik and Bassnectar let that status go to their heads and immediately abused it.
Show threadMotoAshAug 17, 2023

At least if it’s popularity based like withan artist, people are directly supporting them.

It always blows my mind when fcking _business dipshts_ start acting like rock stars. Yea, money’s attractive to some, but nothing like musical talent! Those f*cking goobers.

Show threadSquare SingerAug 17, 2023

I’ve seen the exact same thing on a company that went from 5 to 50 employees in a similarly short time frame.

The issue happens if you start with a friend group without decent structures or leadership “because we are friends/anyway”. This works if you got 5 people but it doesn’t if you have 50 or 150. Because you don’t just have friends who are enthusiastic about the mission there, but you have to fill the ranks with people who actually want to treat this like a job. Now the “bro” culture starts to fall apart.

With this size you start to get real issues at work that need to be handled with a correct structure, which you don’t have because senior management still feels this is just a startup full of bros.

Bros don’t mind working 60 or even 80h/week, every week, because of the mission. Employees do mind. So now you have a workload designed for 60h/week per employee that is shouldered by a 40h/week employee. So either they work 60h (probably without compensation for the overtime) or they cut corners and deliver crap quality.

Same with the way people interact with each other. Bros don’t mind some rough jokes, but employees usually don’t like it that much if their real concerns get brushed aside with the suggestion to maybe “calm your tits”.

When going from startup to real company, you need to make big changes to the structure and work culture. If you don’t, an LMG ensues.