Chozo"What do we do now?" - LMG's response to the recent controversies
At least, *some* of the recent controversies. #ltt #lmg #youtube
YouTube
XamricaIMO a good answer and directly adresses my biggest stated problem of “we know stuff goes wrong, but we don’t care about them” (see lemmings.world/comment/1218294)
The thing about Madison: if it’s true it’s very concerning, but for now it’s only one person who told about these problems and I don’t know her enough to trust her like that without proof. In contrast: I trust GN and they showed proof
This is MY opinion on this matter. Your opinion may vary!
The Problem with LMG - Lemmings.world
# My personal thoughts At first it came off a bit whiney, but I watched the entire thing and I’m glad I did. It shows a pattern of carelessness and in some cases complete douchebaggery of LMG. What they did to Billet Labs is absolutely un-fucking excusable. LMG and Linus, in particular, needs to be mercilessly shamed for that until Billet Labs gets a clear and unequivocal apology and paid restitution for damages. Fucking shameful. What a bunch of pricks. # Video Description This video is not monetized. This video covers our serious concerns regarding the data accuracy of Linus Media Group, including Linus Tech Tips, ShortCircuit, and TechQuickie, particularly as it relates to rushing content out the door to favor – by staff’s own admission – quantity over quality. As the company continues to expand into its LTT Labs direction, the importance of accurate data increases; however, even as ‘only’ entertainment, there are still certain responsibilities to the consumer and the manufacturers to report fairly (and to have defined corrections processes in place). We tried to approach this as objectively as possible and hope that viewers are able to listen to the evidence we present, particularly as it relates to significant and frequent data errors that now present in nearly every technical review video.
andrewRe: Madison, she sprinkled a bunch of non-issues or things that are normal for companies that aren’t super huge- the journal/lined paper debacle for example. Of course the company focused on profit is going to ask you to make do with essentially the same thing. That’s super normal.
Being asked to manage the OF despite objections isn’t super bad when you are literally hired just to do social media. It’s unpleasant, but most jobs are going to have unpleasant moments. At a similar pay scale, I’ve been required to go into homes where folks had COVID. Coworkers have been shot at. I’ve seen things I really would have preferred not to. No job is perfectly sane in that sense.
Some of the issues where Madison said “they wanted me to do x and I couldn’t because y” (red footage editing/ram comes to mind) feel like issues where she would be told something, then would vent in her head instead of going “hey, I don’t have enough ram to edit that footage!” - something I’ve encountered a ton with less experienced (in a business sense, not skill) hires.
The managerial and behavioral issues she brings up are awful but not entirely surprising given the type of folk who stick around there. It indicates a systemic issue and that usually happens due to a lack of oversight and course-correction, or outright malicious management. I’m hopeful that it’s the former.
Last but not least, she repeatedly states it was her dream job. This is an experience that should hopefully show her to never meet your heroes! Dream jobs usually suck unless you get lucky, because they have lots of rough edges. Hopefully she’s doing something that brings her more joy now.
twistedtxbYou can’t force a woman to manage an OF account against her will, knowing VERY WELL what she’ll be exposed to. That’s fucked up.
Why “a woman” specifically? And how would that be against her will?
Because the internet is exceptionally shit against women in particular, and because she clearly stated she didn’t want to do it.
This is kinda basic stuff.
She’s just the manager of the account, not publicly facing on OnlyFans. She was asked to complete a task well within her job description, that is not against her will, she is against the job. A before you say looking at genitalia wasn’t in the job description I urge you to look up what facebook moderation is like.
The kind interactions (including pictures and such) you get on OF vastly differs what you will get on other platforms. That’s not in the job description.
And to your last point, she was a social media manager, not a Facebook moderator. How does that compare? Are you intentionally making bad faith arguments?
Are you intentionally making bad faith arguments?
No, lets keep this civil my guy.
She is a social media manager, onlyfans is social media regardless of the content that is usually posted. As for the reason I brought up Facebook moderation is, what do you think is usually posted there? Minion memes? Photos from trips? Well those moderators are often subjected to beheadings, rape, and other very graphic content. Do you think that was explicitly stated when they got hired?
Of course, Facebook isn’t exactly the premier ‘good place to work’, but this is common throughout any industry that takes submissions for the populous. And I am not making any arguments whatsoever on whether or not she should actually have to see “comments from people talking about how they wanted to fuck me and my co workers.”.
As for the reason I brought up Facebook moderation is, what do you think is usually posted there? Minion memes? Photos from trips? Well those moderators are often subjected to beheadings, rape, and other very graphic content. Do you think that was explicitly stated when they got hired?
No likely not, and Facebook clearly deserves a proper reckoning. But I don’t see how this relates or makes it ok.
And I am not making any arguments whatsoever on whether or not she should actually have to see “comments from people talking about how they wanted to fuck me and my co workers.”.
Would you say LTT/LMG sells itself as a channel about sex or porn or the likes? No, it’s a tech channel and as such one would expect tech related social media. You could state that the function of the job is unchanged, but the job content is also relevant here.
Have you seen how men act when they’re horny? Especially on the internet? She probably still gets gross DMs constantly.
They basically set her up for harassment for life.
I don’t know what you mean about harassment for life. She wasn’t publically facing on the OnlyFans. And yes I have seen. You didn’t answer my questions however.
Because she will expierence sexual abuse there.
What do you mean by sexual abuse?
They probably meant "sexual harassment". Legally speaking, "sexual abuse" typically refers to sexual assault against a child. Verbal/online interactions would generally fall under "harassment".
Yes that’s true.
Anyone can be sexually abused, not just underage people.
It should have fallen on her manager to handle, and she should have put her foot down on that.
Other good ways to improve that particular situation could have been separating her identity from the social media accounts, so that it wouldn’t be clear who exactly was managing them. It paints a target on her back as an attack vector (very dangerous due to her lack of experience) and target of harassment. That’s part of why many big brands do not publicize who exactly is managing their social media accounts.
At the end of the day, management needed to do better and Madison needed to push back more. It’s just a job, theoretically one she could replace somewhat seamlessly given her capabilities, and the fatal mistake was idealizing it. That probably compounded all of her grievances.
She should not have needed to push back more nor should anyone need to “push back more” in their job. That’s victim blaming.
No, it’s realistic. If a manager at your workplace asks you to do something you don’t like, you say “I don’t want to do it”, and they insist - you push back. Is it toxic and stupid that they did that? Yes. But companies get away with this shit because people don’t push back.
Speaking up publicly after-the-fact is great too. It raises awareness and helps give a voice to people whose livelihood is tied up in a company they can’t stand to support due to toxic working conditions. It helps raise awareness to C-suite execs that there may be a managerial issue causing it. It’s a good step that some companies take in stride, and actually turn around to improve things. Time will tell if that’s the case here.
77slevinIt should have fallen on her manager to handle, and she should have put her foot down on that.
Head of HR is Linus’ wife. Yes, it is that bad. Even telling her manager, would have netted zero result.
At a similar pay scale, I’ve been required to go into homes where folks had COVID. Coworkers have been shot at. I’ve seen things I really would have preferred not to. No job is perfectly sane in that sense.
American? Because this is not normal up here in Canada.
US yes, but in Canada I’m sure there are many jobs where you are required by that job to do or see things you’d really rather not.
Ultimately there is some ownership of the situation required- put your foot down and say “no, I’m absolutely not doing that”. If they reprimand you- well, time to look for a company that doesn’t penalize employees for that particular issue.
Idealizing the employer makes it significantly harder to do that. Hopefully the debacle gave Madison insight/life experience that many people never have the chance to obtain.
You’re in here a lot with a vaguely apologetic (on lmgs behalf) and victim blaming attitude. Do you work there or some shit?
I don’t think calling LMG a pile of shit very apologetic nor an indicator that somebody works there.
I also don’t think “management needs to do/should have done better” and “I hope she is doing something that brings joy” and “I hope she was able to pull good insight out of a shitty situation” is very victim blamey.
It’s hard to run a company, and maintain a positive working culture, but there’s no excuse if they continue to allow those kind of working conditions. Make no mistake, LMG sucks for how Madison was allowed to be treated (and most certainly others, see also in other comments I’ve made that it’s a systemic problem).
Hold up…LMG has an OF? Why? Is Linus getting his dick out to show the size of their fucking screwdriver?
It’s a joke account
It was an april fools joke that they left up for a couple of months. Don't think there was ever any explict content there.
MechanizeI feel that your post is belittling a situation that, as narrated, is straight up mobbing and bullying, only acknowledging it in a small paragraph which I feel boils down to a dismissive “awful but only maybe malicious, probably just lack of oversight”, while the rest of your comment tries to find excuses and normalizing something that is not.
These:
I was asked about my sexual history, my boyfriends sexual history, “how I liked to fuck”.
I was told that certain issues were “sexual tension” and I should just “take the co-worker out on a coffee date to ease it out”
I was told I was chunky, fat, ugly, stupid. I was called “retarded” I was called a “faggot”
My work was called “dogs–t” I was called “incompetent”.
“I think the reason you try to be funny, is because you lack any other skills.” smiled then walked away.
I watched co-workers get what I had asked for weeks before they did. It took 2 months to get mine.
Also apparently some managers didn’t like me because I “hadn’t gotten drunk with them before” Which was said in that haha just jokin (but actually I’m serious) tone
Are nor normal nor acceptable: for anyone who is in a corporation where this is common place: take a step back and understand that it is not healthy for you, bad power dynamics are a real thing and the abuse of them sometimes can feel normal, especially in small businesses that get a sudden explosive growth. And I don’t even want to go into her self harming to get a day off.
You can say it was probably a single person, but the lack of action by management with phrases like “change your priorities”, “put on your big girl pants” and stuff like that makes it a Company issue, Company which indirectly accept and endorse that kind of treatment: they being so against unionizing sincerely gets a whole other meaning read under this light.
The notebook case is self evidence of it all: A small thing that normally wouldn’t be anything important, but compounded with the stressful environment got emotionally distressful. The fact that such a small thing has stayed with her so long should tell you that she was really not in an healthy mental state.
I don’t personally care about the whole LTT fiasco, as an uninterested spectator it’s fun to watch from the outside and then change channel, a blip in the media world that will most likely blow down in a couple of weeks. But reading how these actions are belittled is really distressing. Bullying is not normal, and it should never be accepted. Ever.
The full thread for whoever missed it: threadreaderapp.com/…/1691693740254228741.html
Not belittling the situation, toxic workplaces are horrible but they can become so very easily without conscience effort to prevent it. It’s clear that, at the very least, that effort hasn’t been made. I would hope Linus and the rest of upper mgmt don’t intend to normalize sexual harassment, verbal abuse, or threats- rather, they aren’t aware of the extent of it or are feeling upward pressure not to retaliate because they have so many toxic employees.
I’ve made it pretty clear in my message that I blame the company as a whole, and don’t think it’s one person. It’s a systemic issue. Company culture isn’t what you say, it’s what you tolerate, and they’re struggling to even maintain a decent public face.
To say I’m not surprised is not downplaying the situation. I’ve worked (and fought for coworkers, subordinates, and gotten several upper managers fired at) a few jobs where the culture was so horrible and hostile that our turnover rate was over 200% yoy. The writing generally is on the wall in these situations, and their writing was all the technical inaccuracies, sloppiness in content, and absolute negativity that has been displayed in some videos.
What I mean by my earlier message (which might be a hot take) is that the addition of fluff (intentional or otherwise) in otherwise perfectly valid criticism takes away some of the bite and gives fanboys room to speculate about the rest. Nobody should be forced to experience that kind of workplace, but hopefully lessons were learned on the affected party’s end that will help them avoid stepping in another pile of shit like lmg.
Dark ArcI think this is the most sane opinion here really; and it’s one I share…
Like, alright, they screwed up; we don’t need to have a riot about it. I’ve followed these guys for a while, they seem genuine, they’re humans, I think they deserve a chance.
FizzI agree that it’s good they’re acknowledging the problems but that video felt like an interrogation. So corporate and weird.
GeekFTWIn fairness, they would have been absolutely stupid to have not done a 100% prewritten, teleprompted PR riddled pre-written response given the situation. Linus sitting down in front of a camera and just letting his mind do Linus things isn't gonna help anyone lol.
iAmTheTotYou mean like he did on the forums about three hours after the GN video dropped?
Bingo!
It definitely helped everyone to see their true color…
ripcordHave a link by any chance, or has it been deleted?
Seconding this request.
Possibly screenshots to avoid paying them a visit, but, eh, a link would do, too.
Thanks
Edit: better, GN briefly went through Linus’ forum rant here and set some facts straight:
HW News - Linus Tech Tips' Terrible Response, ESMC, & Starfield x AMD GPUs
How many takes do you think each of them needed before they all managed to look at the camera while talking, read the script appropriately, and move their head and hands enthusiastically?
How many times do you reckon the team needed to ask linus before he decided to take the whole thing seriously.
TomJoadHey Fizz - did my last message go through? (about nbox chat. and about using AI as a wise-therapist-friend)
President_PyrusI am carefully optimistic about this. They addressed the problems and seem to take some time to fix them. I hope they will focus on quality over quantity as they promised.
After all the shit Madison revealed, you’re going to give these creeps a chance?
The PC world truly is a toxic cesspool if you can sand behind these assholes a second longer.
What got revealed?
Madison, a former LMG employee who handled the social media part of the business, posted a series of tweets alleging a slew of accusations of sexual harassment and paints a picture of a very toxic and abusive workplace.
Personally, I don't know how much stock I put into all of that just yet. She didn't come with receipts, so right now that part of the story is still mostly "he said she said" until either Madison posts more details about specific incidents or if LMG responds to her claims directly.
Edit: Link to Madison's tweets, mirrored off-site from Twitter: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html
Madison, a former employee, basically described a terrible working environment. She was bait and switched on several aspects of the role, and only found out after giving up her US visa and moving to Canada. She was constantly berated, sexually harassed in many ways, made to manage an only-fans despite making her discomfort known, the expectations of releases were unreasonable and her coworkers sabotaged her by knowingly setting her up to release videos with incorrect facts. Taking any of this to HR, or even Linus himself, ended with her being laughed off or told to stop being a tattle tale
All this is alleged and there’s a lot more, but the kicker to me is the fact she cut her leg bad enough to need staples, because going to the ER was the only way she felt she could get badly needed time off.
That’s what seals it for me - either she’s a borderline nightmare, or the working situation is far beyond the pale. Add in the fact the pressure to release, inaccuracies, and public glimpses of Linus’s attitude, and I’m inclined to believe it’s more true than false
HuddaBuddaI will look at LTT to see the next new product, but I won't go to them for technical specifications anymore, which was one of the primary reasons I watched his videos.
To be fair: I (and probably you) don’t know her and she didn’t show any proof. So just take the accusations with a grain of salt. (That doesn’t mean that they should be ignored!)
This event is the first time I’ve heard of this company. I’ve built several PCs for friends over 20 years, never used YouTube for it, once. This feels like standard influencer drama, and much of the influencer space is a toxic cesspool. It’s not about a hobby, it’s about greedy assholes.
It's damage control.
Of course it is. But admitting errors and avoiding to make them again is a pretty effective form of damage control, and it is the kind we should want from any company.
grognardishThe problem is the founder is still a thin-skinned whiny jerk that made it about 'his poor feelings' and doubled down.
When everyone else in a video is doing the right thing, and the founder is not, you can bet there's a huge toxic culture that a dedicated, but peripheral group is trying to work around - and Madison's tweets show that there's a hell of a lot more toxicity than just their ethical and editorial failings.
The problem is the founder is still a thin-skinned whiny jerk that made it about ‘his poor feelings’ and doubled down.
That’s not at all what happened, and I think you’re seriously lacking empathy here. He explained he reacted emotionally, and he’s still emotional. This is in no small part his baby. He made the decision to step down before this ever happened because he wanted someone that could do it better at the helm, he realized he had been promoted past his competency, that’s not nothing.
Scary le PooWow, well, that’s one way to attempt to rewrite history. Either you are uninformed, misinformed, or delusional. I suggest you read some of the LTT related topics on the front page.
Try just watching the video. Linus is to my eye being extremely genuine.
I don’t get the absurd crusade to crucify someone one barely knows for a situation one barely understands in the name of what… Some self indulgent moral superiority?
It happens every time. “Big publicly recognized figure/company/whatever makes a mistake” and everyone wants their life ruined, speculates to infinity and beyond, and writes off their humanity, etc. And it’s happening over increasingly trivial things.
It’s an internet mob out on a witch hunt and it’s disgusting. This dude and his wife built a company from nothing that has been good to many many people from everything I’ve taken in over the years. They didn’t kill anyone, they screwed up some data in a YouTube video, an employee sold something they shouldn’t have (which Linus then tried to rectify), and some allegations have been made without proof by one former employee with no information from the LTT side (and no proof Linus or his team knew anything about the situation or its severity). Meanwhile, y’all are out here screaming for the demise of the whole damn thing, and to screw any second chances. It’s a completely disproportionate and unjustified response.
I absolutely hate to see people treat other people in this way.
There is tons of info in this thread about what happened. None of that was a mistake.
Apparently you are just misinformed and seem to have no will to take in the relevant information, which renders your opinion on the matter meaningless.
Maybe you should offer him an actual coutner-argument, instead of just saying "You're wrong and uninformed". You're not even presenting an opinion on the story at all, which is even more meaningless than his actually relevant comments.
The onus is not on me to inform him when he can scroll up and find the original gamers Nexus video, the LTT response, etc.
His arguments have absolutely no basis. There is no point engaging with someone who refuses to inform themselves on all the very public information that is available. Especially when it can be gleaned by nearly zero effort
QHCWhile also monetizing the video and plugging their merch, in direct contrast to GN not monetizing the original video that started this whole thing. Absolutely brutal move there.
GN not monetizing the original video
GN monetized their follow up video just the same, pure drama for clicks about a total non issue. But Internet loves this shit.