Mastodawn

ULTIMATEDEAD Aug 15, 2023

I'm worried that in the future we will be forced to use smartphones just like in China

https://lemmy.ml/post/3367414

I'm worried that in the future we will be forced to use smartphones just like in China - Lemmy

In China, you can’t exist without a smartphone, because for all existential things you have to do (paying bills, buying tickets etc.) , you are forced to use the almighty wechat app. Smartphones are a tool to manipulate and to spy on the population. It is a tool utilized by the ruling class, to control the masses. I hate the future and I hate “progress”.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

The thing that is bothering me right now is seeing “cashless” establishments. Frankly, it’s kind of discriminatory, and I do not know how you can justify denying people goods and services if they are carrying the currency of the country they live in. That does not sit right with me.

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈

If it’s a private business then that’s their choice. It’s your choice to not give them your $. I don’t see how that’s discrimination? If they have something that you really want, then you’ll choose a cashless option.

BarrelAgedBoredom Aug 15, 2023

Homeless people usually only have cash. The kinds of places that are cashless usually don’t have goods at prices a homeless person would be purchasing something at but you can see how it’s a concerning trend. And I’m sure privacy minded individuals would prefer to use cash when possible

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

There are two problems with this logic. 1: it is actually debatable if it is their right. I can’t take you to civil court if I’m claiming you won't pay for something as you stand there waving the money in front of my face.

2: at no point was I talking about legal rights. I am saying what does not sit right with me.

There’s always this particular tone when people come in rushing to the defense of corporations with “it’s a private business they can do what they want.“ But I often find the same people get angry when corporations run certain kinds of marketing campaigns or are outspoken on a social or political issue. Suddenly they want the government to step in/corporations need to adhere to “the rule of law” or whatever.

Either way, if you don’t see how it could be discriminatory, then I advise you to talk to low income earners and ask how many of them have credit cards they can actually use.

How many homeless people do you think have a line of credit? Are they simply not allowed to buy a bottle of water anymore?

This isn’t about the rights of a business. This is about prioritizing their preference - not a need - over the needs of actual human beings in a very flagrant way. That really does not make sense. USD actually has this printed right on it (for debts public and private or whatever the exact wording is). To not accept cash is incredibly questionable to me, both legally and ethically.

Edit: as of 2 months ago, 23% of americans don't even have a card. Should nearly 1/4th of the US population be barred from being able to pay for things?

Credit Card Ownership And Usage Statistics | Bankrate

Access to credit can differ from person to person. Find out how age, income level, gender and race tend to influence the number of credit cards one holds.

Bankrate

phillaholic Aug 15, 2023

How many have debit cards though?

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

Initial googling shows roughly 4.5% of the population has no bank at all.

Regardless, cashless has too many issues and - whether or not it's intentional - often ends up being discriminatory. The legality of it is very questionable.

lukzak Aug 16, 2023

Wow, that’s pretty crazy to think that so many people can’t/won’t get a bank account. Are these people undocumented immigrants with no identification? Is this the same part of the population that is targeted by the ID laws for voting?

How are those people getting money? Is it really possible in the USA to just be paid with an envelope of cash? Or is it under the table work? Or if they are poor, is there any kind of benefit/welfare from the government? Don’t they need a bank account to receive those funds?

I’m just asking because in my country, I was able to open a bank account for free. I’ve had it for a year and I’ve never even deposited any money into it. But I have a debit card for that account. It seems impossible to me to have no access to a bank account.

hoodatninja Aug 16, 2023

Banks in the US are tricky business sometimes. They often want a lot of info (understandably) but someone does not have a home may not be able to provide some of it. They may not have a phone number, they may not have an address, they may not have either. Could also be undocumented individuals are part of it, I'm sure they factor in. Maybe someone decided to go "off grid" and stop using anything connected to the government they can and is now a mattress stuffer lol. Point is cash should always be acceptable outside of edge cases IMO.

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023

Mom and Pop store shouldn’t be forced to pay for a cash register and a safe. Nor face an increase possibility of robbery looking for cash.

Now, instead of homeless hanging out by the entrance/exit begging for change, they can hang out and beg a customer to take their $2 cash to buy them water.

They’re not being banned from buying something they might need. They just need to be more creative.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

I never like the propping up of "mom and pop operations" to make statements about businesses writ large. My local brewery doesn't need to be cashless. They are a multi-state multi-million dollar operation. They can handle some cash.

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023

Of course you don’t like an example that goes against your bs narrative.

Many places around the globe have been moving toward cashless purchasing. Hell, you can walk into some Whole Foods and walk out without any type of transaction. If you don’t think that level of interaction will become more wide spread… you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

Many places around the globe have been moving toward cashless purchasing. Hell, you can walk into some Whole Foods and walk out without any type of transaction. If you don’t think that level of interaction will become more wide spread… you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand.

I'm not sure what this is in response to? I never said it wasn't happening - quite the contrary. I'm saying it's a trend I don't like and I laid out why.

The fact that you're calling out major companies like Whole Foods means you understood exactly what I mean when I said I don't like propping up mom and pop shops for arguments. But honestly I can't tell what you think said anymore.

Not sure what warranted this hostile tone.

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023

Bottom line is IMO it certainly isn’t discrimination. Homeless person with enough cash for a bottle of water that only has a cashless option can try to exchange their cash for someone to make the purchase. Now, if they have a hard time finding someone, you could argue that individual people that won’t help are being discriminatory.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

Bottom line is IMO it certainly isn’t discrimination.

A lot of individuals, groups, and governments disagree with you.

Homeless person with enough cash for a bottle of water that only has a cashless option can try to exchange their cash for someone to make the purchase.

Oh come on man, this is america. No one is going to do that for those who need it. We collectively hate the poor and don't want to see them. Covid gave everyone a great excuse to never roll down their windows.

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023

Correct. I won’t. But, that puts the onus on the fellow customers v. business. Isn’t free market ideas grand? BTW: people should never give homeless/beggars any cash. Could be a death sentence when they buy their next fix and OD.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

Surely you’re trolling now

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 16, 2023

Trolling about what?

True I would not exchange cash for an electronic purchase.

True that cash handouts can lead to drug purchases and subsequent ODs.

How does that equate “troll”?

hoodatninja Aug 16, 2023

Yeah we’re done have a good one man.

kmkz_ninja Aug 15, 2023

“It isn’t that we built a system that specifically punishes and prohibits the poor and homeless. It’s those darned lazy people who won’t jump through the hurdles we installed to help them.”

😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023

Get lost. Many social support systems use pre-loaded cards for all kinds of different benefits.

kmkz_ninja Aug 16, 2023

Sorry, I thought the homeless were just supposed to beg people to be able to use the default currency of the United States.

Ya know, the point you made in the previous comment that was what I was responding to.

hoodatninja Aug 16, 2023

You are just throwing darts in the dark at this point

QuinceDaPence Aug 15, 2023

I can’t take you to civil court if I’m claiming you won't pay for something as you stand there waving the money in front of my face.

On this front. If you owe them money, they must accept cash. This is why people can pay thousands of pennies at tow yards. Or if you eat at a restaurant and they bring the bill, they can't then say they'll only take card, they must accept the cash.

Physical money is "...legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." Notice that purchases/private charges or trades are not included in that.

hoodatninja Aug 15, 2023

That's interesting. It led me to the Fed site (looking into the details here) and it does turn out there are no federal (but there are state and municipal laws) about accepting/refusing cash. TIL