ULTIMATEDEAD

I'm worried that in the future we will be forced to use smartphones just like in China

https://lemmy.ml/post/3367414

I'm worried that in the future we will be forced to use smartphones just like in China - Lemmy

In China, you can’t exist without a smartphone, because for all existential things you have to do (paying bills, buying tickets etc.) , you are forced to use the almighty wechat app. Smartphones are a tool to manipulate and to spy on the population. It is a tool utilized by the ruling class, to control the masses. I hate the future and I hate “progress”.

Aug 15, 2023 at 10:57amWeb
Show threadxionzuiAug 15, 2023
Elon is working on replicating it now with “X”. He’s already said he wanted something like that for the US
Show threadKidplayer_666Aug 15, 2023
I mean, you already do. Everything is digital, and most stuff is centralised anyhow (payment is controlled by a duopoly, Visa and Mastercard, and you gotta pay almost everything with them)
Show threadULTIMATEDEADAug 15, 2023
Yes and no. I can still pay with cash and live a normal live without owning a smartphone. I can still buy paper train tickets etc.
Show threadpostmeridiemAug 15, 2023
UK & EU loves this stuff though, so they won’t mandate you have to use a single phone app for everything, but they will slowly remove your ability to do anything without your phone. You’ll just end up with a shittier version of China’s system with a billion shitty apps.
Show threadSynapseAug 15, 2023
I was visiting Berlin last week. So many pubs are cashless now. And so many more cafés have this infuriating QR code menu-card. Meanwhile in Stuttgart, many reataurants are cash-only, which is almost as annoying.
Show threadgnuhautAug 15, 2023
This will happen and marginalized groups like illegal immigrants, the homeless, and the disabled will be effectively excluded. Poor people are going to have their finances controlled even more. This will cause deaths.
Show threadDJKJuicyAug 15, 2023

My kid’s school just implemented an app-based pickup process this year.

You have to download an app and register your phone and email and child, then when you get in the line to pickup your child you have to press a button in the app.

I literally cannot retrieve my child from school without a smartphone.

Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

I literally cannot retrieve my child from school without a smartphone.

I’m positive there is a backup method; did you ask about one, or did you simply install the app?

Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023
I would not be so positive. Schools aren’t well known for thinking policies through completely. Good chance this person lives in an area that has high enough income that they would just tell poor people to not be poor and get the app.
Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

There are reasons besides “being poor” to not have cell phone access at pickup time. I assure you the answer won’t be “I guess this kid is spending the night here”.

There is a backup method.

Show threadbdeskAug 15, 2023
Are you familiar with unthinking unfeeling unseeing american school administrators?
Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

You didn’t add anything new to the discussion. I understand that sometimes bureaucracies-- like the public school system-- can implement poorly thought out policies, but again, I assure you that there will be a way to pick up that hypothetical kid without an app or smart phone. Because, again, the alternative is that the kid doesn’t get picked up and… what? Stays at the school?

There will be a backup method. The guy I initially responded to probably just did like most of us would do and installed the app without question.

Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023
Obviously they will figure out how to get a kid to their parents are not going to kidnap a child. I’m also aware that there are reasons other than being poor to not have a cellphone. Again, you are thinking logically and not like a school administration. It is my experience that school administrators can be quite illogical. If you don’t want to use a phone, you are 100% going to end up fighting with school staff. They’re not going to like exceptions to their processes for any reason. They will fight you to get you to conform. It’s a school after all.
Show threadgartenzaunAug 15, 2023
To be fair, I’d say that’s a fight worth fighting
Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

You seem to be under the impression that school administration are an exception and not the rule.

They will fight you to get you to conform.

Stripping out the somewhat bizarre manipulative language, yes, of course any organization is going to want you to use their systems to streamline their processes; it’s far more efficient to have everyone using the same the system than for it to be a hodgepodge of different methods to achieve the same goal. Does that really strike you as odd?

Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023
No it is not odd. I’m not even sure why you are disagreeing with me at this point. I made an off the cuff comment you felt compelled to “correct.” I picked one population potentially impacted by a stupid policy. I did not say it was the only population potentially impacted by a policy. I’m simply speaking colloquially more than anything. Why you feel compelled to read so much into that, I do not know.
Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

It is my experience that school administrators can be quite illogical.

This is the part of your comment I should have quoted, sorry. This gives the impression that school administrators are somehow set apart from the general population’s propensity to being illogical.

Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023

Again, saying that a subset of the population is illogical does not preclude the larger population from being illogical. You inferred incorrectly.

At this point you’re just looking for quotes to try to “correct” and grabbing the wrong quotes. Weird way to spend your time trying to disagree with someone when there is no disagreement.

Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023
I didn’t grab the “wrong” quote-- I neglected to grab a quote at all. Oh no, did I do something wrong again by correcting you? haha
Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023

Bro, are you on drugs?

The text below is your entire comment before your updated quote comment. It contains a section where you quoted me. So it’s not that you neglected to quote. At this point I don’t even know what you are talking about. You’re all over the place.

You seem to be under the impression that school administration are an exception and not the rule.

They will fight you to get you to conform.

Stripping out the somewhat bizarre manipulative language, yes, of course any organization is going to want you to use their systems to streamline their processes; it’s far more efficient to have everyone using the same the system than for it to be a hodgepodge of different methods to achieve the same goal. Does that really strike you as odd?”

Show threadjoeAug 15, 2023

This should have been my comment, bro (lol):

It is my experience that school administrators can be quite illogical.

You seem to be under the impression that school administration are an exception and not the rule.

blahblahblah the rest of my comment here.

Keep digging that hole haha.

Show threadMaybeItWorksAug 15, 2023

Who is digging in a hole? I just disproved your statement outright and that’s only a single thread I could pull on at this point.

A little summary of the situation: You said you grabbed the wrong quote. I agreed with implicitly on that and noted how all over the place you were just trying to find any reason to disagree with me. So you shifted to claiming that you didn’t use wrong quotes, that you never quoted me at all. I show you that you did quote me. Then you shift back to saying you did have the wrong argument/quote to begin with. Somehow you think this makes me look as though I am digging? Ok.

You seem to be under the impression that school administration are an exception and not the rule.

Nothing I stated indicated I am under this impression. Again, speaking to a subset of the population (school administrators) in context of conversation about that population does not necessitate it is an exception of the superset. I can draw you pictures on why this inference you made is flawed, but I see no point in that.

Show threadfliphtAug 15, 2023
It's fun to hate on centralized institutions that we all get frustrated with, but the exact opposite of this is true. Schools are generally pretty solid on understanding that they cannot keep children from their parents. If a parent pulled up, they would be able to collect their child.
Show threadGuldanxAug 15, 2023
Take it from the lens of the average Chinese person, and they will tell you it’s awesome, simple and convenient. Pros and cons basically.
Show threadCloudless ☼Aug 15, 2023
The average Chinese person has no concept of protecting their personal privacy from the government. They accept the government to invade their privacy (being brainwashed by propaganda since birth).
Show threadNunchukAug 15, 2023
Or too afraid to speak up about issues
Show threadHaggierRapscallierAug 15, 2023
They’ll speak up about a bunch of issues when it’s on an individual level - but organising is risky. Funnily enough Americans and other westerners are individualistic without an all powerful state leaning over them.
Show threadNightOwlAug 15, 2023

You are talking to people who some refuse to download Facebook, Instagram, tiktok, and some being degoogled and running GrapheneOS. And some who opt for self hosting over trusting companies with cloud.

When those people don’t even see eye to eye with the average person from their country I sure don’t think they are going to care about people overseas not caring about privacy. Especially if they are not pro government surveillance to begin with, and some even hating their government and being suspicious of them.

Show threadTangent5280Aug 15, 2023
The lens of the average person is currently under 6 feet of mud and water after having been victimised by an authoritarian government and system that prioritised fast progress over safe progress. It’s hard to even find news about this because the machine systematically cuts internet access of people who try to bring light on the floods.
Show threadMagisterAug 15, 2023
Something happened in QC a few weeks ago like this. A IIRC 60yo person who donated blood all his life, went to a donor center, there was a lot of empty seats so he wanted to do like he has done for 40 years, take a seat and give blood, but no, nurses told him he has to register and make an appointment on the application. So he left.
Show threadCoreidanAug 15, 2023
Who doesn’t own a smart phone tho?
Show threadradixAug 15, 2023
The idea is that it should be a choice, not required simply by virtue of existing in a particular country.
Show threadhoodatninjaAug 15, 2023

Roughly 12% of Americans do not, so ~40million people do not. I’m sure that number is higher in plenty of other countries. Yes, most people have them, even overwhelmingly so, but there are enough people who do not that we cannot just assume everyone does. Nor should everybody be forced to buy a piece of hardware every few years (or sooner, accidents happen and some products are terrible) for hundreds of dollars.

If we expect everyone to have them, they should be extremely cheap or even free for those who are struggling to make ends meet. But good luck selling people on the idea of giving away smart phones to low income people. Remember “Obama phones“?

Show threadchepoxAug 15, 2023
“do you people not have phones?!?!?”
Show threadULTIMATEDEADAug 15, 2023
People who care about privacy and mental self-determination don’t own smartphones.
Show threadKingAug 16, 2023
But pc is exempt from this rule??? Hahaha so self righteous getting second hand cringe here
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023

False.

Smartphones are not a tool to manipulate and spy on tge population. Nor are they a tool utilized by the ruling class to control the masses.

Dont assume that what happens in China will happen elsewhere.

You might appreciate the work done by purism to give us more control over our devices.

Show threadhoodatninjaAug 15, 2023
Jesus you’re smug
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
Do you feel responding to tone represents something meaningful?
Show threadSethayyAug 15, 2023
Some sexy confidently incorrect material here
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
False.
Show threadSethayyAug 15, 2023
Oh god yes baby keep it coming
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
yawn
Show threadEncryptionAug 15, 2023

Smartphones are not a tool to manipulate and spy on tge population.

Oh boy, wait until you learn about Google-Analytics on Android phones, or how they predict (or lets say know) where traffic jams are. Does the Section 702 of the USA ring a bell?

They certainly started as a good idea, but they evolved into a widely used surveillance tool for companies and governments across the world.

Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
You barely have a clue if you think you’re informing me by mentioning 702.
Show threadjaamesbaxterrAug 15, 2023
This comment has big Dwight Shrute vibes. What is the best bear?
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
Was it the “false” part? Because DUH.
Show threadpokemaster787Aug 15, 2023

You might appreciate the work done by purism to give us more control over our devices.

Based off this line I’m pretty sure you’re trolling, Purism barely manages to ship a product in 5 years.

Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023

They had issues, but theyve been shipping phones this year and they run Linux.

We dont have to just use ios or android, and I think that’s a great thing!

Show threadHaggierRapscallierAug 15, 2023
Alternatively use graphene OS, or Calyx OS.
Show threadcaptainlezbianAug 15, 2023
Is it their intended purpose? No. Is it absolutely a function they’re used for? Yes. It’s a phone, the government absolutely spies on you with it
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 15, 2023
Adtech spies on you with it. The gov piggybacks on adtech.
Show threadcaptainlezbianAug 15, 2023
Not just adtech. Wireless communication protocols too. The stuff Snowden leaked never stopped
Show threadMotorheadKusanagiAug 16, 2023
Meh. Still nothing mext to what CCP does in China.
Show threadHaggierRapscallierAug 15, 2023
Good bit m8.
Show threadhoodatninjaAug 15, 2023
The thing that is bothering me right now is seeing “cashless” establishments. Frankly, it’s kind of discriminatory, and I do not know how you can justify denying people goods and services if they are carrying the currency of the country they live in. That does not sit right with me.
Show thread😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Aug 15, 2023
If it’s a private business then that’s their choice. It’s your choice to not give them your $. I don’t see how that’s discrimination? If they have something that you really want, then you’ll choose a cashless option.
Show threadBarrelAgedBoredomAug 15, 2023
Homeless people usually only have cash. The kinds of places that are cashless usually don’t have goods at prices a homeless person would be purchasing something at but you can see how it’s a concerning trend. And I’m sure privacy minded individuals would prefer to use cash when possible
Show threadhoodatninjaAug 15, 2023

There are two problems with this logic. 1: it is actually debatable if it is their right. I can’t take you to civil court if I’m claiming you won't pay for something as you stand there waving the money in front of my face.

2: at no point was I talking about legal rights. I am saying what does not sit right with me.

There’s always this particular tone when people come in rushing to the defense of corporations with “it’s a private business they can do what they want.“ But I often find the same people get angry when corporations run certain kinds of marketing campaigns or are outspoken on a social or political issue. Suddenly they want the government to step in/corporations need to adhere to “the rule of law” or whatever.

Either way, if you don’t see how it could be discriminatory, then I advise you to talk to low income earners and ask how many of them have credit cards they can actually use.

How many homeless people do you think have a line of credit? Are they simply not allowed to buy a bottle of water anymore?

This isn’t about the rights of a business. This is about prioritizing their preference - not a need - over the needs of actual human beings in a very flagrant way. That really does not make sense. USD actually has this printed right on it (for debts public and private or whatever the exact wording is). To not accept cash is incredibly questionable to me, both legally and ethically.

Edit: as of 2 months ago, 23% of americans don't even have a card. Should nearly 1/4th of the US population be barred from being able to pay for things?

Credit Card Ownership And Usage Statistics | Bankrate

Access to credit can differ from person to person. Find out how age, income level, gender and race tend to influence the number of credit cards one holds.

Bankrate
Show threadphillaholicAug 15, 2023
How many have debit cards though?