AnastasiyaDoes a country that invades other states, bombs & murders civilians in hospitals, residential areas and kidnaps children BELONG in the UN Security council?
MaybeMyMonkeys@Anastasiya hasn’t every member of the security council invaded another country at some point?
@MaybeMyMonkeys A war of aggression with tens of thousands of civilian casualties due to direct strikes on hospitals and residential areas? Kidnapping children?
Torture and murder?
In 2023. But you are welcome to try some whataboutism and discuss past vs 2023 as if there doesn't need to be any progress.
Torture and murder?
In 2023. But you are welcome to try some whataboutism and discuss past vs 2023 as if there doesn't need to be any progress.
@Anastasiya the UN needs to expel Russia and their friends that are aiding in the war on Ukraine
r0tas@Anastasiya no but if we draw that line then the UN Security Council loses every major economic powerhouse and becomes completely irrelevant in the political sphere of influence soooooo
@r0tas Nice way to say that you support Russian war crimes.
@Anastasiya “Russian”, “war”, “crimes”, “support”. It’s almost impressive that none of these words appear in my comment and yet somehow that’s the conclusion you draw. Mannnn I thought the mastodon crowd was supposed to be different from the Twitter drones 😔
@r0tas Thank you for providing a good example of psychological projection. When you will have something to say about the actual post or article other than whataboutism, feel free to make a more useful contribution.
@Anastasiya but… your post was a question about the article and my response was literally my opinion/answer to your question… are you a bot or something? What is this conversation?
@r0tas And you got my feedback on your opinion, kitten. If you decide to engage the material and contribute with something more than whataboutism, please write back.
@Anastasiya you keep using this word “whataboutism”. I don’t think it means whatever you think it does. Uh, have a good one I guess?
Reini Urban@Anastasiya then you'd need to kickoff the other terror state, the US, also
@rurban How many civilians the US bombed in Mariupol? In Aleppo?
Maybe it's the US destroying the grain going to African countries?
By all means, bring on some whataboutism that solves nothing while russia keeps torturing, raping and murdering people every single day.
Maybe it's the US destroying the grain going to African countries?
By all means, bring on some whataboutism that solves nothing while russia keeps torturing, raping and murdering people every single day.
Carl (He/Him)@Anastasiya There is no mechanism to remove a member from the Security Council, unless they choose to allow it. Russia could veto the motion.
Gregarious Otherone@Anastasiya Until I clicked on the link, I was sure this article was going to be about the United States of America!
@GOAdmin The US bombed Aleppo? Tschinvali? Mariupol? Murdered thousands of civilians in their beds and hospitals? Is it NATO or CIA kidnapping Ukrainian children, raping and torturing Ukrainians in 2023?
"But what about..."? Get real, kitten.
"But what about..."? Get real, kitten.
@Anastasiya You must be quite young if you have no memories of the Mi Lai massacre in the 1960s, the Waco massacre in the 1990s, the MOVE bombing of an entire neighborhood in Philadelphia in the 1980s, the drone attacks on weddings in Afghanistan during the TWO DECADES the U.S. occupied that country, and the tens of thousands of people it helped murder in Yemen just in the past few years.
It's pretty easy to get the two confused.
Daniel Leigh@GOAdmin @Anastasiya Wait, Waco? The time that a heavily armed cult decided that the correct response to a warrant was shooting at the law enforcement and initiating a standoff? That is the example of "The US is bad" you're going with?
@Anastasiya The United States probably should have been kicked out of the U.N. after Secretary of State Colin Powell repeated a bald-faced LIE to the Security Council in 2003 claiming to prove that Saddam Hussein had a huge chemical weapons factory built in the middle of the stinking desert to justify the occupation of Iraq.
CNN Official Interview: Colin Powell now regrets UN speech about WMDs
@GOAdmin So, your response to Russian fascist invasion, war crimes and crimes against humanity is "but that about the US".
We get it, you don't care about actual war crimes and victims.
We get it, you don't care about actual war crimes and victims.
@Anastasiya I have no ability to do anything about war and its victims. Those decisions are made by the elite power brokers who move the pawns around the chessboard.
The war criminals sit in corporate boardrooms deciding how best to enrich themselves and their shareholders. They care nothing about us pawns.
If you believe exposing and complaining about THEIR crimes will change anything, then you are probably younger than I imagined.
Suggested reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
@GOAdmin Kitten, the difference between us is that I do actually oppose all imperialism and fascism, and you are fixated on anti-americanism.
This leads, for example, to me condemning the Vietnam war and Russian invasion of Ukraine, while you only want to talk about the Vietnam because it was the US invading.
This leads, for example, to me condemning the Vietnam war and Russian invasion of Ukraine, while you only want to talk about the Vietnam because it was the US invading.
@Anastasiya For the same reason you assume that I am a kitten (or a Russian), I assume you are an ostrich (or an American). So there is more than a little difference between us.
I began this thread by making a joke, assuming you had a sense of humor.
My apologies for the mistake.
loucovey@Anastasiya only if you set up the rules from the beginning that don’t consider the possibility that membership would be abused.
@Loucovey If only the membership of the council didn't change several times... If only russia wasn't violating the UN charter...repeatedly.
Go on. Look it up.
Go on. Look it up.
@Anastasiya I did.
“A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.”
And Russia as a permanent member of the security council can veto that recommendation.
“A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.”
And Russia as a permanent member of the security council can veto that recommendation.
@Loucovey Did you see the part when it goes to the general assembly vote where there is no such thing as veto?...
@Anastasiya yes. Did you see the part that it requires a two thirds vote to override the veto? There are 2/3rd of the nations to pull that off
@Loucovey There is no veto in general assembly. I also invite you to see all of the resolution on invasion of Ukraine. Even China has condemned it.
@Anastasiya at this point I’ve completely lost the string in the point of your original post. What exactly do you think CAN be done within the UN beyond the membership saying. “Naughty, naughty”
Charlie Stross@Anastasiya You know the United Nations was originally the name given to the alliance created at the Yalta conference to fight the Axis powers in WW2? And the Security Council were the main military entities in the wartime alliance? Including Stalin's USSR.
Agreed, the modern UNSC has long since out-grown that origin. But it's harder to get Russia off the UNSC than you might think—it's established by an international treaty with over 190 signatories at this point, and runs on consensus.
@cstross Yes, neither russia nor China is an original member.
How are you going about ignoring the ongoing Russian war crimes and the fact that russia is repeatedly violating the UN charter.
How are you going about ignoring the ongoing Russian war crimes and the fact that russia is repeatedly violating the UN charter.
@Anastasiya Russia got nodded in as the successor to the USSR.
Maybe after Russia is defeated we can allocate that Soviet successor state seat to someone more appropriate ... like Ukraine?
But really, the point is that the UN is a mess by design, there's no easy way to reform it without abolishing it and creating a replacement (as happened to the old League of Nations) and realistically I don't see that happening short of the same situation that killed the LoN (a world war).
@cstross Indeed. Basically the russia's membership in the UN council is illegal (there are no actual documental proceedings after the USSR fall) and russia routinely violates the UN charter (war crimes, annexation of territories by war - all illegal since 1945).
gavinisdie 
@Anastasiya but who should replace Russia on the Security Council
@gavinisdie I would say Ukraine (as a legal member of the UN and successor to the USSR), but really, should be just a majority vote of all members of the UN instead of a "security" council.
@Anastasiya Ukraine is an odd choice but it does make some sense as excluding Russia, Ukraine is basically the Sucessor to the USSR
@gavinisdie For your consideration, when I say that russia's seat is illegal, it's not just because russia is currently violating the UN chapter, it's because russia has no legal right to even be there:
"Since 1991, Russia has had a seat at the U.N. absolutely illegally, being the only participating country that has neither signed the organization’s 1945 founding Charter nor ever been voted a member by the General Assembly."
https://time.com/6256488/russia-united-nations-security-council-undeserved-seat/
Iain Roberts@Anastasiya Good question. Membership of the UN Security Council has never before been based on ethical behaviour, but on power after WWII.
Perhaps that should change, but be careful what you wish for: a UN without countries like Russia and China at the top table may be even more powerless than it is today.
@slowbikeiain It actually is for some things. The war of invasion and annexation of territories is illegal under the UN charter an has been illegal since 1945.
(Plus, russia has no right to be in the Security Council, as it never applied or had a legal admission to it.)
(Plus, russia has no right to be in the Security Council, as it never applied or had a legal admission to it.)
AlexanderMars@Anastasiya I’m pretty sure that’s how you qualify to be on the security council.
@AlexanderMars So, you think that this is what the human society should use as a standard? Or you advocate for the abolition of the UN as it happened with the League of Nations?
@AlexanderMars While I can see the irony and I appreciate your sense of humour, it seems that we need something more to actually stop the genocide and prevent fascist regimes like russia from exploiting and destroying the security system that has been there to prevent wars like WWII.
@Anastasiya I agree that Russia has clearly stooped to full fascist dirtbaggery. Arguably the purpose of the UN Security Council is to prevent a NUCLEAR conflict. Not prevent genocides, fascism or imperialism(it clearly fails at this), just keep it from going nuclear. Kicking Russia out might let us feel magnanimous, it would probably be counterproductive if preventing nuclear war is a goal. Plus it’s clearly a club for the biggest bad actors, why would they kick one of their own?
Mark de Vries 🇪🇺@Anastasiya I think it is time to kick the UN security council as a whole. No more guaranteed seats, no more vetos.
@markdevries General assembly and majority vote. Also, kick russia out as they haven't gone through legal application to the UN and are routinely brake the UN charter.
Lou Katz@Anastasiya If you use those criteria, then the Security Council will have no members.
@lou Hey, it's called UN charter and just takes into account some basic human decency. No place for fascist regimes and genocidal countries like China and russia on a security council. Especially, given that russia is violating the UN charter on aggressive war and annexation of territories.
A Tattered Scrapbook@Anastasiya Exactly. And the US should have been thrown out long ago.
xs4me2No, it does not, but how to get rid of it…
Kevin Leecaster@Anastasiya
It's time for the globe to begin a decades long process of replacing the UN with something else we can all better agree on, but I'm glad we've not had a world war again since we started it after the last one.
It's time for the globe to begin a decades long process of replacing the UN with something else we can all better agree on, but I'm glad we've not had a world war again since we started it after the last one.
Zoroaster@Anastasiya The Security Council was never intended to be a purity test or popularity contest. Stalin was on the Security Council, and the US remains on despite having killed a million civilians in the Middle East and bombing many weddings, schools, and hospitals in the past 25 years.
@zoroaster In what way your anti-American stance solves the current problem with Russian fascists murdering Ukrainian civilians?
@Anastasiya As an American, it’s not my job to save Ukrainians. America’s goal is to bleed Russia by prolonging and making the conflict as bloody as possible. I can assure you that whatever you’re currently doing or suggesting is not going to save Ukrainian lives. Good luck!
@zoroaster Aren't you also human?
It just seems that you are ok with fascism and imperialism as long as it's not the US doing the war crimes. Got it.
It just seems that you are ok with fascism and imperialism as long as it's not the US doing the war crimes. Got it.
@Anastasiya In 2018, US Congress banned sending weapons to Ukraine due to pervasive Nazi activity and corruption, and only lifted the ban when Ukrainian deaths became useful for our great power game against Russia. Any American who pretends to care about Ukraine is deceiving you. After there are no more conscripts to send to the grinder, Ukraine will be dropped faster than we dropped Afghan girls. Trying to browbeat people into saying otherwise is only deceiving yourself.
@zoroaster Nice example of typical Russian propaganda. Tell me, what is "Nazi" about Ukraine? The Jewish president? The multiethnic and diverse (from Muslim Crimean Tatars to Jewish and Christians) community living together and resisting Russian fascist invasion? Or maybe the absence of far-right in the parliament?
@Anastasiya Take your debate to US Congress and the NYT (article from two months ago). The fact is that weapon sales to Ukraine were banned until very recently, until Ukrainian deaths became useful to America. Easily verifiable facts. It’s in America’s interests for Ukraine conflict to drag on, which is why we have been sandbagging on Abrams tanks, F-16s, etc. America isn’t trying to save Ukraine, and will not save Ukraine. At least with Afghanistan, we put our own troops on the ground. As Lindsey Graham said recently, this is “free for us”, because it’s only foreigners dying. You’ll need to go browbeat somebody else if you want reassurances that America actually cares about Ukrainian lives.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
@zoroaster I am still waiting for an answer to any of the questions.
Also, by your "standard", ss the US Nazi? Maybe Belgium is as well? New Zealand? But you don't want to acknowledge any of the facts. Why would you if you can stay hypocritical and regurgitate Russian narratives.🤷
Also, by your "standard", ss the US Nazi? Maybe Belgium is as well? New Zealand? But you don't want to acknowledge any of the facts. Why would you if you can stay hypocritical and regurgitate Russian narratives.🤷