đľđ¸ Free Palestine đľđ¸Biden calls China a 'ticking time bomb' due to economic troubles
maynarkhI donât know about China, but Biden is really throwing stones from glass houses here as the leader of a country which is teetering on the edge of civil war, had a full blown insurrection in the past few years, and not only has it failed to prosecute the leader and instigator, it has allowed him to run for election again and there is a possibility of him being elected.
And this is not mentioning that so many in the highest offices âon both sidesâ are so hilariously corrupt in a country with its national ethos being âthe land of the freeâ.
Iâm not happy about this by the way, I donât think a world order built by China would be better than the shitty one we got from the US.
Flyberius [comrade/them]I donât think a world order built by China would be better than the shitty one we got from the US
I do to be honest.
Iâd rather be under the rule of a hegemony that is composed of many different cultures and in the process of healing than one who is still actively genociding their minorities.
If we pretend that what the USA does to its own people is acceptable, you still have to consider what it does to the rest of the world. Iâm sorry, but in light of all the evidence, I see the US hegemony as evil. I also doubt the western mediaâs portrayal of the Uyghur âgenocideâ and I donât agree that China is in the process of a Holocaust against its own people.
Iâm lucky enough to have a job that puts me in contact with a lot of countries all over the global south of the world, and the general opinion from all of them is that China is a lot better prospect than old Western imperialism.
The Chinese propaganda made to counter the satellite images, testimony from victims, and video evidence consists of some YouTubers visiting the same handful of uncomfortably smiling Uyghur families under the careful eye of Chinese censors and fluff pieces that amount to ânuh-uhâ.
China is trying to erase the culture of people within their borders, again, and there is a long tradition of this forced assimilation in China. They are not pluralistic, and donât want to be, and their attitude towards non-chinese within their borders lead me to have very low expectations on how they will treat minorities outside.
How could anyone possibly have any doubts in the face of satellite images and eye-witness testimony?
The Iraqi propaganda was hastily produced to justify a war. The Uyghur situation has been uncovered by journalists slowly over decades.
I thought your links would be to any of the dozens of images, articles, and videos on the Uyghur situation. Why not link a debunking of that instead of trying to assert that because lies exist that the Uyghur ethnocide is also a lie. Your argument is weak because facts wonât support it.
Since you sound like an expert who has really done your homework here, letâs see some of these stunning pictures youâre talking about and then compare them to photos from Americaâs prisons. I wonder which will look worse? Doesnât the USA also lock up far more people per capita than China?
Frank [he/him, he/him]As a point of comparison the US has hands down the most violent and oppressive carceral system in the west by a huge margin, and they canât keep people from broadcasting audio and video from inside the prison even when the pigs have the whole place locked down to hide the atrocities being comitted from the world.
Uncovered over decades? It seems like decades in internet years but the first reports started in 2014, less than 9 years ago.
Mindfury [he/him]first reports started in 2014, less than 9 years ago.
Damn, I wonder when the US released the last Uyghur detainees from Guantanamo Bay?
happyandhappy [she/her]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
this guy doesnât even support chinaâs policy and he will debunk all of this shit for you
Cutting Through the BS on Xinjiang: Uyghur Genocide or Vocational Training?
It was more too discount the fact that either of those things are conclusive evidence in some way. Idk where youâre getting âslowly over decadesâ from because the entire story is barely 9 years old. All of the âjournalismâ on the subject is just people regurgitating stuff from Adrian Zenz, a dude claims he was âled by God to fight Chinaâ and works for a nonprofit that claims COVID-19 deaths and German WWII casualties count as victims of communism. Hardly a reliable source.
Awoo [she/her]If satellite photos and testimony is your standard of evidence please stay the fuck away from any position of authority, everywhere.
Is it just one grainy satellite footage? I was under the impression it was a series of images documenting the construction and expansion of detention centers located suspiciously near the population that has been complaining about being disappeared to detention centers. I also thought there are very clear ground-level pictures, showing thousands Uyghur in blue jumpsuits.
Is the testimony random? I thought it was testimony was mostly from Uyghurs from the affected area, with credible stories that line up with other witnesses and victims that were also questioned.
You will deny this is true because it is crucial for your reality that it is false. Nothing the US is currently doing is a fucked up as what China is doing in terms of racism and ethnic suppression.
Many grainy satellite photos vs 1 grainy satellite photo is really not much of a different.
I also thought there are very clear ground-level pictures, showing thousands Uyghur in blue jumpsuits.
No the photo you are referring to is of a prisoner movement between two prisons. Youâre being showed photos and people are telling you theyâre X when theyâre actually Y.
Is the testimony random? I thought it was testimony was mostly from Uyghurs from the affected area, with credible stories that line up with other witnesses and victims that were also questioned.
Thereâs about 30, and almost always extremely sus circumstances surrounding them. Meanwhile we have literally thousands of videos of tourists readily available, right now, of people visiting the area and having conversations. Who do you believe here? People IN XINJIANG or people outside it?
Look. Let me give you some food for thought on this from another angle. Letâs look at another country where know REAL oppression is taking place, Israel, which has more money and a far smaller country mileage area to spend that money. Israel is an apartheid state actively murdering and oppressing the Palestinians with the intent of stealing their land and eliminating them. reddit.com/r/israelexposed is what this looks like.
The evidence against Israel is insurmountable. Mountains of it. Hundreds of thousands of actual video of actual shit. Real evidence.
In a country where literally everyone owns a smartphone it is impossible to prevent the creation of this evidence. Even with more resources and a smaller surface area to stop this shit from getting out - Israel canât stop it getting out. But youâre trying to say that China can? With fewer resources and a much MUCH larger surface area? They can stop 100% of all evidence from coming out? Just some misrepresented photos that donât actually depict what people claim they depict? Some critical thinking is needed here. Why is there so much evidence in Israel and absolutely zero evidence in China? Donât just turn to the idea that they have an all-powerful state that can somehow be in all places at all times magically preventing even a single video from getting out, that idea is a fantasy and comes from the realm of the delusional. Really THINK about this. Be critical.
The reason the evidence does not exist is because what has been claimed is not accurate.
Now, does that mean that China didnât implement a re-education program? No it doesnât. Does that mean that this wasnât quite a heavy handed measure aimed at stopping terrorism? No it doesnât. It was a really serious undertaking that was certainly a heavy handed use of authority that probably had individual instances of dickwads in that authority acting as dickwads. But, what I am asking you to do is to see through this bullshit genocide crap. Itâs nonsense. There is no evidence for it and itâs not what actually happened. They had a serious string of terrorism, and to stop it they implemented a very large re-education program that people had to attend Monday-Friday (they could go home on weekends). Thatâs what actually happened. No genocide. No mass sterilisation nonsense. No massive repression of religion (other than the extremist one that was committing the terrorism, imported from over the border in Afghanistan).
A good historical parallel is all the brave people who escaped from an in many cases returned to and escaped again from the Nazi death camps to carry intelligence and information to the allies and partisan groups. All the Allied leadership knew about the death camps because photos, maps, and detailed information was being smuggled out regularly. They were visible on aerial surveillance.
Now there are billions of cell phones, the great firewall is as porous as a seive, and thereâs no evidence of genocide in Xinjiang. Arbitrary arrest and detention? Yeah. A lot of ham-handed cultural programs? Yeah. But genocide? Nothing. And the counter-terrorism progra was wrapped up a few years ago because apparently it was very successful and the threat of Wahhabi insurgents is effectively nil now.
You will deny this is true because it is crucial for your reality that it is false.
Let us look at a specific example. A claim like âThereâs cultural genocide of Uyghurs in Xinjiangâ is simply unreal to most Westerners, close to pure gibberish. The words really refer to existing entities and geographies, but Westerners arenât familiar with them. The actual content of the utterance as it spills out is no more complex or nuanced than âChina Bad,â and the elementary mistakes people make when they write out statements of âsolidarityâ make that much clear. This is not a complaint that these people have not studied China enough â thereâs no reason to expect them to study China, and retrospectively I think to some extent it was a mistake to personally have spent so much time trying to teach them. Itâs instead an acknowledgment that they are eagerly wielding the accusation like a club, that they are in reality unconcerned with its truth-content, because it serves a social purpose.
What is this social purpose? Westerners want to believe that other places are worse off, exactly how Americans and Canadians perennially flatter themselves by attacking each othersâ decaying health-care systems, or how a divorcee might fantasize that their ex-loverâs blooming love-life is secretly miserable. This kind of âcrab mentalityâ is actually a sophisticated coping mechanism suitable for an environment in which no other course of action seems viable. Cognitive dissonance, the kind that eventually spurs one into becoming intolerant of the status quo and into action, is initially unpleasant and scary for everybody. In this way, we can begin to understand the benefit that âvictimsâ of propaganda derive from carelessly âspreading awareness.â Their efforts feed an ambient propaganda haze of controversy and scandal and wariness that suffocates any painful optimism (or jealousy) and ensuing sense of duty one might otherwise feel from a casual glance at the amazing things happening elsewhere. People arenât âfallingâ for atrocity propaganda; theyâre eagerly seeking it out, like a soothing balm.
Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of âBrainwashingâ
Iâve become very skeptical of the concept of âbrainwashing.â Over the past few months this skepticism has boiled over into open and explicit disagreement with even well-meaning pushers within the Marxist-Leninist corner. I often find it difficult to explain concisely why it isâŚ
Yeah, bro. There were detention centers. The government was arresting people on pretty sketchy evidence and holding them for 2-3 months without telling their families. And making them sing patriotic songs for some reason. Itâs in the UN report. Itâs a violation of the basic right to be free from arbitrary arrest and detention. And itâs not genocide. Christ almighty does anyone even know the un report exists?
Do a google image search for âUyghur genocide.â Report back with any interesting images you find. This has been going on for twenty years now, surely there must be some pretty gruesome photos somewhere, comparable at least to the images of the Haitians deported by Biden to make room for Ukrainians in a totally not racist way?
â YĎÉ ĆÔĎĘ âImagine being from Canada and bleating about China trying to erase the culture of people. Projecting much?
You know the UN wrote a whole-ass report about XinJiang, right?