🇫🇮 Jaahas 
Daniel MoserMore cars = less friends. 🚙🚕🚓🚗
People living on streets with heavy traffic do have less friends and less acquaintances on average.
Matze@dmoser I'm a bit confused by the numbers for "light traffic".
"200 vehicles / day" and "200 vehicles / peak hour"? I guess, it should be either 2000 / day or 20 / peak hour?
Adrian Gadient-Brügger@dmoser This is a new and very compelling argument to me. Need to check the research to get an idea of possible confounding factors
Vivek Gani@adriangadientbruegger @dmoser
It's the Donald Appleyard study from ~50 years ago, see my recent post which links to a video about it: https://mastodon.social/@vivekgani/110856205542465588
@vivekgani @dmoser Any replications since then?
L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ@adriangadientbruegger @vivekgani @dmoser Seems like his son made an update a couple of years ago https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780128160282/livable-streets-2-0
John Gordon
Sandra Maazouz@dmoser i can’t stop seeing rhino grasshopper
maiamaia@dmoser poorer, can't afford to socialise, do jobs like carework where you do 48 hour shifts & spend all yr spare time sleeping exhausted, can't go out. Have you worked shifts? Had to cover at short notice? 99% of your friends will drop you if you can't socialise in their comfy mon-fri 9-5 timetable
Albert Cardona@dmoser Strong Jane Jacobs energy.
Hix@dmoser @failedLyndonLaRouchite
Seems to be coming from: https://transformative-mobility.org/multimedia/street-traffic-and-social-interaction/
Which lists as source: Appleyard et al (1981, 9. 21). Liveable Streets, Berkeley: University of California Press.
Josephine Roper@hx @dmoser @failedLyndonLaRouchite I don't like unsourced posts either. And the way at first glance the graphic looks like a recent finding from TUMI. My library only has the book in print and I'm not there rn, but I'm pretty sure the research it presents is the same as in this paper: Donald Appleyard & Mark Lintell (1972) The Environmental Quality of City Streets: The Residents' Viewpoint, Journal of the American Institute of Planners, 38:2, 84-101, DOI: 10.1080/01944367208977410
⁂ Fish Id Wardrobe@dmoser Why should the number of cars effect the number of friends? Do we all stay at home all day without computers or phones? Is it only possible to have a friend on the same street?
I'm sure high traffic streets are bad for residents. But … not like this?
Lucy B@fishidwardrobe try cycling or walking around your neighborhood and see what changes! I hardly speak to motorists, as all they do is move from car - home - car. I have far more interactions with people who are walking or cycling around. Sitting in metal boxes turns out to be really isolating 🤷
@fishidwardrobe also how often do you choose to walk across a really busy road rather than a quiet one? I know plenty of people who'll avoid shops and cafes because there's a big road in the way.
@linuxlucy Certainly true, but not much to do with how many friends you may have.
@fishidwardrobe it's related to how many friends you see and how often, and how many new friends you make.
@linuxlucy Not really. People don't just make friends on their street? They do it at work, or at a place both go to, or over the internet, too?
Sure, high traffic neighbourhoods are bad for everyone (even the drivers!) But it doesn't restrict the number of friends you can have.
@fishidwardrobe the diagram is showing the number of social interactions, with both friends and acquaintances. I'm sorry that you don't live in a walkable neighborhood, I do think experiencing what it's like would help you understand it better. With cars, you're restricted to only interacting with people at drivable destinations, but there's a whole world in between that you're missing out on.
@fishidwardrobe wait, I've just realised you live in Manchester too?! The way you were talking I'd assumed you lived in the US or similar. How strange that we can live in the same place and experience something so different.
@linuxlucy Interesting you think I don't live in a walkable neighborhood. I'm in suburbia, there are shops at the end of the road. It's certainly not utopian car-free urban living – wish it was – but not the opposite, either.
I'm on a bus route near a school, so, yeah, too many cars. We know the folks next door and across the road. But most of my friends are online, or people miles away I've known for years.
Not sure I'm really friends with my neighbours. If we fell out, where would we go?
@fishidwardrobe I'm not friends with my immediate neighbours either, although that's because they aren't great people. I'm acquainted with a few people on the street and have friends nearby that I often meet while out walking, so those "interactions" in the diagram. I'm also acquainted with a few local dog walkers. I wouldn't get any of that if I drove or they drove. I don't interact with anyone across the "big" road near me.
@fishidwardrobe I assumed you didn't live in a neighborhood that encouraged walking/cycling, because you don't seem to have experience of any of those interactions.
@linuxlucy I'm old and with two disabled folks in the house, so car is pretty much it. Not had much success with cycling and high blood pressure, sadly. Happy to walk to the local shops when it's just me…
I can't say our neighbourhood actively *encourages* either walking or cycling. Outside of town I'm not sure that's a thing in Greater Manchester…
@fishidwardrobe I'm sorry to hear that, but glad you get to walk to the local shops occasionally. GM is terrible for encouraging walking and cycling generally, but it has some groups of quieter side streets that really help.
You might not be interested, but CyclingUK are doing free e-bike loans in Manchester at the moment (for a month iirc). Might be better for the blood pressure (or maybe not with these roads) https://www.cyclinguk.org/manchester-making-cycling-e-asier-session-and-loan-booking
@fishidwardrobe Better walking and cycling infrastructure would help disabled people too, because it would make it easier for them to get around in wheelchairs/mobility scooters/e-bikes/e-trikes, etc. Trying to convince the councils of that is another matter though, so I get that driving is sadly the only option for many people right now.
@linuxlucy right! I think that ebike loan is GM only, sadly. It would have been fun to get out on a bike again…
@fishidwardrobe that's a shame. It's a really good scheme from what I've heard. It's also in Sheffield, but I assume that's no use either. Maybe there's something similar nearer to you though?
@linuxlucy Oooh! Ta!
StarkRG@dmoser While there might be a tenuous causal relationship between the two, I'm not convinced it's in that direction. It could be that people who tend to have fewer friends prefer living in high-traffic areas.
Andrew Feeney
Kelly Wheaton 
🦫💧🐸 🌻🌹@dmoser we live on a country lane. There are no sidewalks. Houses are far apart in some places. We walk everyday and we wave at everyone that passes us or that we walk by. Maids, gardeners, servicepeople, neighbors etc. At first everyone thought us odd. Now everyone waves, some stop to chat. The construction workers on big projects, stop and gossip. Neighbors meet on the street. Kids play. You can tell when someone is new they don't wave. Everyone can make a difference. 👋 🏡