moosetwin@FMHY

Weird that no-one has crossposted this yet, especially considering it mentions the community directly.

https://lemmy.world/post/2802423

Weird that no-one has crossposted this yet, especially considering it mentions the community directly. - Lemmy.world

cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/1360444 [https://reddthat.com/post/1360444] > For context: One of the rules in that community is that you aren’t allowed to post anything related to suicide. In a mental health community.

Aug 7, 2023 at 11:19amWeb
Show threadPacers31Colts18Aug 7, 2023
What the fuck kind of rule is that?
Show threadMTLion3Aug 7, 2023
That seems… Counter productive since that’s part of some mental health issues/crises but okayyyyyy
Show threadsabAug 7, 2023

You can see the rationale for maintaining different communities with different purposes though.

If someone goes there feeling depressed or whatever, being greeted by a wall of posts by people contemplating suicide might be somewhat counterproductive.

Show threadCandelestineAug 7, 2023

They’re not trying to be a crisis intervention space, but more of a maintenance space for people that aren’t that bad off yet.

You have to pick one as a small community, you can’t be both. Because the internet-community-available tools (listening empathetically to the problem, mainly) to help at one phase can potentially hurt at another, and there isn’t just one set of tools that always helps all people suffering different stages of difficulty, that can just be universally employed. Particularly at this young-community scale, where there just aren’t that many participants yet.

It’s regrettable, and I think this should probably be explained in the rules so they don’t come off as arbitrary, but it is the way it is.

If this was a private therapy space, where “patient conversations” were private, we would not have this problem.

Show threadAvaddonLFC ☄️ 🤘Aug 7, 2023
While introducing that rule, what I had in mind was more about protecting some people from being affected/influenced by it, and less about outing suicidal people. As previously stated, a separate, connected community and services would be needed for suicide discussion and prevention, and the mods will likely do it according to their comnunity’s needs.
Show threadCandelestineAug 7, 2023

Yeah, I agree. I think suicide specifically needs its own community. Severe problems and mild problems just need different approaches.

Severe problems ideally need people who have been there themselves, who can speak from experience. Or people who have training.

Mild problems and health maintenance are more accessible to everyone.

Show threadZenGrammyAug 7, 2023
A suicide-focused community with dedicated professional mods would be so nice. We would be able to direct anyone who is in crisis there. Lemmy is still young and I’m not aware of a space like that to refer anyone to, though.
Show threadCounselingTechieAug 10, 2023
Fully agreed. The importance of a specific community cannot be understated. It would be good to have it be for people who had been there as peers in the community, but the mods would have to be properly trained and vetted above all else.
Show threadDrRatsoAug 7, 2023
If the reason is triggering, you are ill-informed. Discussing suicide does not trigger suicidal ideation, having open discussion about it can in fact push people to reach out. Now that is not to say that random strangers on the internet should be handling suicidal people, but refusing them an outlet to reach out is arguably more harmful as long as actually suicidal people are referred to the proper channels if they post.
Show threadFeathercrownAug 7, 2023
I disagree, chain suicides do exist and we need to carefully evaluate if our actions could be causing more of those than the people we’re helping.
Show threadjeffhykinAug 7, 2023

I think the rule should be rewritten. Instead of “YOUR POST ABOUT SUICIDE IS NOT ALLOWED AND YOU’RE CAUSING PROBLEMS IF YOU DO” (not what it literally says, but how it feels to read with the giant font and strong language)

I think you can hit your same goals with:

  • ‘Downer’ posts, especially those about suicide, will be kindly redirected to somewhere designed for support.

    • It makes the intent clear, doesn’t stonewall vulnerable people, and allows positives posts about overcoming suicide (which, based on your comment sounds like they should be allowed, but the current rules make it sound like those will be blocked too)

    Show threadAvaddonLFC ☄️ 🤘Aug 7, 2023
    I agree with you, I only touched the rules once after opening the community to have an idea of what they should look like, and didn’t really improve or elaborate on them further. It looks like the new mod team didn’t really do much about it either, but that’s understandable at this early stage the community is in. Here’s hoping your suggestion and this comment section in general can help it be improved!
    Show threadZenGrammyAug 7, 2023
    We will work on rewording it today.
    Show threadApyteleNov 24, 2024
    I briefly tried creating a comm specifically for this that I titled “Void Screaming” so that you could go let it out and keep it out of the other subs and ideally not even follow that sub. Kind of like a specialized mental health grease trap. People were worried it was unhealthy but tbh ime working in mental health you gotta let it out, it’s just about making sure you do it in the appropriate places and appropriate ways then go back to the positivity once the ick is out. But I get that that’s a pretty complex topic for laypeople.
    Show threadAshMan85Aug 7, 2023
    sounds like they should get new mods
    Show threadZenGrammyAug 7, 2023
    The mod team and I have been working hard at making this a space where everyone feels heard and supported. It’s difficult to make sure we are allowing people to talk freely about whatever they need to talk about, but not ending up with a time-sensitive crisis that we as volunteers don’t have the tools to manage properly. We will definitely rethink that rule and ways to re-word it. We are always open to talking about the rules and what needs to change to make people feel comfortable posting here.
    Show threadburgersc12Aug 7, 2023
    Hey, you’re ruining the narrative of the meme, cut it out /s
    Show threadamioAug 7, 2023

    It does seem bad, but there are reasons why that rule is there. Anyone who is acutely suicidal needs urgent guidance and help, but places like Lemmy/FV or Reddit are not that kind of help. We are all inherently "randoms on the internet" with no (or no easily provable) credentials.

    People running and participating in these kinds of communities are volunteers and not trained in mental health. As such, they are not equipped to handle anyone acutely suicidal, and should definitely not try to - for whomever's sake and their own. Pointing people towards any qualified help is about the best one can do. Any other advice is unqualified, and either offering, accepting or enabling any would be irresponsible.

    I suppose in a vulnerable state of mind, that itself can seem grim or dismissive, but it really isn't. It's a matter of protecting vulnerable people from potentially shitty advice which could endanger them. Mental health is serious, you wouldn't go to Reddit or whatever with an acute heart attack, so don't do it with an acute psychological crisis either.

    Show threadZenGrammyAug 7, 2023
    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We have updated rule 4. Posts that mention suicide are now allowed with proper flags and warnings so people who may feel triggered can avoid them.
    Show threadBuddhaBeettleAug 7, 2023

    I get why they do this, suicide prevention is no joke and should be handled by people that trained for it, some commenter trying to help could cause a lot of harm without meaning to do so and someone that's not in a good mental space could become triggered and/ or spiral into suicidal thoughts themselves after reading these kinds of subjects.

    That said, perhaps the mods could link suicide prevention hotlines from all over the world (as you already do for different resources on -TherapyNeurodegenerative Disease Support, ADHD, Autism, Fibromyalgia, etc.). If I were me, Id put those as fron and center as possible, and as easy to find as posible by those who need it (say, quote it after the rule about suicide, include it in the resources given, maybe highlight it).

    Suicide.org has some great guidelines on how to mention suicide in the media (not the same thing as a mental health forum, I know, but I personally find them very useful regardless when it comes to discussing anything suicide-related on the internet, where you never know who is reading your content).

    Media Guidelines for Suicide - Suicide.org! Media Guidelines for Suicide - Suicide.org! Media Guidelines for Suicide - Suicide.org!

    Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide, Media Guidelines for Suicide

    Show threadBuddhaBeettleAug 7, 2023
    Trying to look up some world compendium of suicide hotlines and it came up short for many countries (and some info could be outdated), so I figured Id give my two cents and provide the hotlines I know, from countries that are not often mentioned in these lists, hope more people can add theirs: