Druid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

I'm really fed up of seeing articles like:

• PHP is dead
• Does PHP have a future?
• 10 reasons not to use PHP
• Here's a hundred languages to use instead of PHP

#php is a fantastic, highly capable #programming language that's constantly evolving. I suspect the authors of such articles may have used PHP once in 1995 for a "Hello world".

If you can't cope without using a million Java frameworks or whatever else is flavour of the month then you might want to reassess your own #coding skills. 😠

Aug 4, 2023 at 3:09pmWeb
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@druid <Nerd RANT MODE>
NOBODY "codes" web stuff ! Isn't it all "tools and generators" and "hyper inflated frameworks" and whatever "HTML" that gets generated no human will ever understand it ? Of course they don't want PHP .. this means you should know what you are doing !
</Nerd RANT MODE>
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@gilesgoat Exactly. Why create a beautiful, efficient page with only what's needed when you can stuff it full to overflowing with needless crap the user never even sees.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@druid The REAL SCARY PART is "the security issue" and "WHAT is ACTUALLY DOING that page ??" .. sometime I watch HTML stuff "cause I am curios" .. I see things that I cannot explain .. I get paranoid thinking "everything tries to do something not evident behind your back" ..
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@gilesgoat Yep. Shocking how many seemingly random calls to other external resources some pages make. Especially those infested with ads.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@druid If you want to see "the top of the top" about that .. just "try to develop ANY app on Andorid" .. and while you connect to your ( Android ) device open the "Debug Log" and just even without launching anything WATCH what's going on .. there's a CONSTANT stream of data between your phone and N "Google entities" .. even stuff like "the state of your battery" every 5 seconds or such .. it's MENTAL the amount of data your phone gives away to "someone".
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@gilesgoat Ooh! Sounds interesting (and scary). I'll have to try that. I've only done some basic Android development but I'd like to get back into it.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@druid Unless you are masochist and/or they recently improved something SO MUCH I am not aware of .. consider well IF you really want to do that .. I still have NIGHTMARES about "Eclipse" first and "Android Studio" ( Electric Eel I think ) after. It's not even "the device" the problem but THE SDK !!!! IT NEVER WORKS as it should !!! EVERY TIME it does NOT do something it should! Gradle !! I HATE GRADLE !!! Note I was only/always developing "Native" ( CPP ) .
Show threadkeithzgAug 4, 2023
@druid @anniemo71 @gilesgoat Having tried to do Android development is, frankly, one of the bit reasons why I remain a fan of PHP :P Gods Android development is such a needlessly complicated and overhead-laden process compared to PHP web development . . .
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@keithzg @anniemo71 @druid Seriously all the ( some ) times I had to do anything on "Android" ( mostly Quest ) I found the "sdk" ( Android Studio ) to be "awful". I mean it SHOULD do "what it says it should be doing" .. except that it doesn't or WORSE it does it and then out of the blue STOPS doing it "for now apparent reason". The whole thing to me seems a dog's breakfast and "we wanted to cram it ALL we could possibly cram". My idea is that is "overbloated" and tries to pleasure everyone CONT.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@keithzg @anniemo71 @druid and ends up in pleasuring NONE ! .. I have NO IDEA if "going Java" makes things better/worse, I don't want to be close to that thing my development ALWAYS is and will be "native". Also I SUPPOSE I was "one of the few" (?) doing Vulkan native CPP on Quest. Documentation was really terrible, code samples "super out of date" a lot of stuff for me been guesswork and trial an error. But what I HATED was the whole "system" going bananas and being overly complicated CONT.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@keithzg @anniemo71 @druid Gradle SUPPOSEDLY should make life simpler .. IT DOESN'T, in the end I ALWAYS had to do touching/doing by hand "makefiles" or stuff like that where ONE SPACE in the "wrong place" could cause TONS of "obscure crap". Also not to mention "problems with filepaths lengths in Windows", Windows is NOT Linux/Unix, I think the limit is 250 chars also WHY to install all in "AppData" is a mystery .. CONT.
Show threadGiles GoatAug 4, 2023
@keithzg @anniemo71 @druid Overall I found myself spending 70% of time fighting with Android Studio "to make it simply compile and link" AND/OR to try to make a copy of a working project "A" and make it into "B" and continue with "B" .. SHOULD be simple, it's NOT "All that SHOULD have worked automatically NEVER did" .. I spent countless hours, days cursing Google and Android in despair to make things work. "Documentation" .. NEVER worked "do this" .. it doesn't work .. terrible experience !
Show threadAegirAug 4, 2023
@druid How often has PHP been declared dead, and yet here it still is when so many “PHP killers” are dead and forgotten!
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@aegir True!
Show threadtauntsetupsAug 4, 2023
@druid I love the changes with every new version, and the community is tireless when it comes to improving the development experience. lt has it’s flaws but also undeniable strengths.
Show threadGina Peter BanyardAug 4, 2023

@druid Because it is easier to rehash the same old lies, then actually use the language and see if you encounter flaws that you think are dealbreakers.

Yeah PHP still has some pretty rough edges that can/should be fixed. But it's not the same language as even 5y ago.

And give someone enough time with a programming language they will find stuff to complain about it.

Show threadarray   Aug 4, 2023
@druid I'm just fresh from school, but I've been using PHP+Laravel for ~1 year (including a 3 month "professional" internship), and I can confirm. Using that particular combination for web development (be it a standalone web API or a full stack monolith) is really a pleasure, it's really powerful, reasonably easy, well documented (IMHO)... I don't understand why some people are so dismissive. Just use what you like, we PHPers are not gonna hurt you. XD
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@array Hi! You're so right. I'm really glad to read that you're having a good experience with PHP and Laravel.
Show threadAlerta! Alerta!Aug 4, 2023

@druid How annoyed must someone be to put effort into writing an article why one should *not* use a certain thing. Or that a certain thing has no future...

That tells me more about the author than about "The Thing"...

But as long as it provides money to someone we will for sure see these clickbait-articles

Show threadStephan HochdörferAug 4, 2023
@druid it's fantastic to see how PHP evolved in the last 20+ years. The language, the ecosystem (frameworks & tools), and everything. And it's still powering a large portion of the web.
Show threadDan GoodinAug 4, 2023
@druid @ellotheth I'm pretty sure the "PHP is dead" sentiment is by no means limited to articles. I hear that sentiment voiced by experienced researchers speaking at security conferences, on social media, etc. Maybe fault them rather than "articles"?
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@dangoodin @ellotheth No, I'm happy to fault the articles as I'm pretty sure they are not the type of authors to attend security conferences.
Show threadDan GoodinAug 4, 2023
@druid @ellotheth Yes, because it's much easier to shoot down "articles" than it is to shoot down an experienced researcher who says precisely the same thing.
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@dangoodin @ellotheth Exactly. You've summer me up completely without knowing anything about me. Good for you.
Show threadDan GoodinAug 4, 2023
@druid @ellotheth No, I have summer up the argument you laid out. Big difference.
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@dangoodin @ellotheth Yawn. Bye.
Show threadgemma lynn ⇒ ello@voidAug 4, 2023
@druid @dangoodin there's plenty of fault to go around ​
Show threadkeithzgAug 4, 2023
@dangoodin @druid @ellotheth I was hearing that since the mid-2000s though...

At very most, it's like how "Facebook is dead", which I've also been hearing for years, albeit not as many. Not cool anymore, sure, and one could even argue one shouldn't use it (I would agree for Facebook, but not for PHP), but it's silly to pretend it isn't still widely used.
Show threadEvert PotAug 4, 2023
@druid yeah this made ma leave the PHP community. Was sick of always having to justify my career. It's worse in north america vs europe I think
Show threadDruid 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Aug 4, 2023
@evert Sorry to read that. ☹️ I hope you're enjoying what you do now.
Show threadEvert PotAug 4, 2023
@druid yeah that aspect is definitely better! But I miss the smaller PHP clique and conference circuit
Show threadJosh ButtsAug 4, 2023
@druid @Skoop otherwise known as "they hate us cause they ain't us”
Show threadStuart JonesAug 4, 2023

@druid

Usually I just glance at those headlines, smile to myself and return to making money by working on the PHP project(s) I have time for out of the many I'm asked to pitch in on.

I guess people writing these articles aren't getting enough work in their preferred language and need to fill the time somehow.