Flying SquidChild Safety on Federated Social Media
MyFairJuliaWhy would someone downvote this post? We have a problem and it’s in our best interest to fix that.
RookiBecause its literally nothing a normie would read through. And some thought lemmy had bad ui.
godlessBecause it's talking about a report without linking to any report. That's shouting into the void at best, clickbait at worst.
SentinianI was able to click and access the report fine
chaogomuThe report (if you can still find a working link) said that the vast majority of material that they found was drawn and animated, and hosted on one Mastodon instance out of Japan, where that shit is still legal.
Every time that little bit of truth comes up, someone reposts the broken link to the study, screaming about how it's the entire Fediverse riddled with child porn.
So basically we had a bad apple that was probably already defederated by everyone else.
ZILtoid1991It's Pawoo, Pixiv's (formerly) own instance, which is infamous for this kind of content, and those are still "just drawings" (unless some artists are using illegal real-life references).
They’re using Generative AI to create photo realistic renditions now, and causing everyone who finds out about it to have a moral crisis.
Well, that's a very different and way more concerning thing...
… I mean … idk … If the argument is that the drawn version doesn’t harm kids and gives pedos an outlet, is a ai generated version any different?
brain_panimo, the dicey part of the matter is “what amount of the AI’s dataset is made up of actual images of children”
Shit that is a good point.
KesMoreso an apple with controversial but not strictly CSAM material based in a country where it’s content is legal. Actually, not even an apple; Lemmy and the fediverse aren’t an entity. It’s an open standard for anyone to use; you don’t see the Modern Language Association being blamed for plagiarized essays written in MLA format, or the WHATWG being blamed because illegal sites are written in HTML, so it’s not a fair comparison to say that Lemmy/the fediverse are responsible for what people do with their open standard either
Metal Zealot It’s 4Chan’s “9000 Penises” all over again
etrottaHere's a link to the report: https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:vb515nd6874/20230724-fediverse-csam-report.pdf
It is from 2023-07-24, so there's a considerable chance it is not the one you were thinking about?
It is from 2023-07-24, so there's a considerable chance it is not the one you were thinking about?
Since the release of Stable Diffusion 1.5, there has been a steady increase in the
prevalence of Computer-Generated CSAM (CG-CSAM) in online forums, with
increasing levels of realism.17 This content is highly prevalent on the Fediverse,
primarily on servers within Japanese jurisdiction.18 While CSAM is illegal in
Japan, its laws exclude computer-generated content as well as manga and anime.
Nope, seems to be the one. They lump the entire Fediverse together, even though most of the shit they found was in Japan.
The report notes 112 non-Japanese items found, which is a problem, but not a world shaking issue. There may be issues with federation and deletion orders, which is also an issue, but not a massive world shaking one.
Really, what the report seems to be about is the fact that moderation is hard. Bad actors will work around any moderation you put in place, so it's a constant game of whack-a-mole. The report doesn't understand this basic fact and pretends that no one is doing any moderation, and then they add in Japan.
I can’t seem to find the source for the report about it right now, but there’s literal child porn being posted to Instagram. We don’t see this kind of alarmist reports about it because it is not something new, foreign and flashy for the general public. All internet platforms are susceptible to this kind of misuse. The question is what moderation tools and strategies are in place to deal with that. Then there’s stuff like the on TOR where CSAM was used as a basis to discredit its use then it turned out that the biggest repository was an FBI honey pot operation.
Buried in this very report, they note that Instagram and Twitter have vastly more (self generated) child porn than the Fediverse. But that's deep into section 4, which is on page 8. No one is going to read that far into the report, they might get through the intro, which is all doom and gloom about decentralized content.
Because it's another "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" hysteria bait post.
They found 112 images of cp in the whole Fediverse. That's a very small number. We're doing pretty good.
It is not "in the whole fediverse", it is out of approximately 325,000 posts analyzed over a two day period.
And that is just for known images that matched the hash.
Quoting the entire paragraph:
Out of approximately 325,000 posts analyzed over a two day period, we detected
112 instances of known CSAM, as well as 554 instances of content identified as
sexually explicit with highest confidence by Google SafeSearch in posts that also
matched hashtags or keywords commonly used by child exploitation communities.
We also found 713 uses of the top 20 CSAM-related hashtags on the Fediverse
on posts containing media, as well as 1,217 posts containing no media (the text
content of which primarily related to off-site CSAM trading or grooming of minors).
From post metadata, we observed the presence of emerging content categories
including Computer-Generated CSAM (CG-CSAM) as well as Self-Generated CSAM
(SG-CSAM).
RivalarrivalHow are the authors distinguishing between posts made by actual pedophiles and posts by law enforcement agencies known to be operating honeypots?
Still, that number should be zero.
ZakIn an ideal world sense, I agree with you - nobody should abuse children, so media of people abusing children should not exist.
In a practical sense, whether talking about moderation or law enforcement, a rate of zero requires very intrusive measures such as moderators checking every post before others are allowed to see it. There are contexts in which that is appropriate, but I doubt many people would like it for the Fediverse at large.
shrugalThe study doesn’t compare their findings to any other platform, so we can’t really tell if those numbers are good or bad. They just state the absolute numbers, without really going into to much detail about their searching process. So no, you can’t draw the conclusion that the Fediverse has a CSAM problem, at least not from this study.
Pretty sure any number of CSAM is bad…
Yes, but this is about comparison, not absolute numbers. This is about whether using the Fediverse could make things worse, and the study doesn’t answer that question.
FizzIts not our responsibility. As long as moderators are reporting it as they come across it and the fbi is looking into it then what more can be done? Google, Twitter, discord, Instagram, reddit have 10000x the amount of csam.
Given new commercial entrants into the Fediverse such as WordPress, Tumblr and Threads, we suggest collaboration among these parties to help bring the trust and safety benefits currently enjoyed by centralized platforms to the wider Fediverse ecosystem.
Because the solution sucks?
Another “SCREAM” for “BAN FEDIVERSE ITS DANGEROUS!!!”
ScewBetter ban school too. I hear that’s how kids find drug dealers.
macnielAnd don’t forget to ban Sugar. Because Hitler loves Sugar!
And air. I heard Stalin loved air.
Gods damnit. Everything needs to be banned now!
Not at all. Sensible suggestions.
He tagged it CSAM, its literally a cry for the government to ban lemmy.
What are you even talking about? Read the study. It’s making no such cry.
What report?
Literally my thought process. The linked website is for a normal user not trustworthy. Its like the 80s website of a kid. And the urls are scary on a different level.
iNeedScissors67I can see a link in the title
But what is that? A website from the 80s?
It's Stanford University.
Is it a time warping university?
Stanford's website has always been solid. When I was an edu dev, we always paid attention to them. They're definitely a mobile first shop. I'm not sure why you perceive them as dated.
just some divs put together just links are interactive. but the papers are really good tbh. Only found them after diggin in that website.
Is this the same report that was brought up where it was found out Twitter has the exact same issue?
Or that Reddit has had this issue in spades.
Frankly, that the ability for the Fediverse to cut off problem servers is listed as a drawback and not an advantage is in my opinion, wrong.
blazerabasically we dont know what they found, because they just looked up hashtags, and then didnt look at the results for ethics reasons. They dont even say what hashtags they looked through.
We do know they only found, what, 112 actual images of CP? That's a very small number. I'd say that paints us in a pretty good light, relatively.
it says 112 instances of known CSAM. But that's based on their methodology, right, and their methodology is not actually looking at the content, it's looking at hashtags and whether google safesearch thinks it's explicit. Which Im pretty sure doesnt differentiate with what the subject of the explicitness is. It's just gonna try to detect breast or genitals I imagine.
Though they do give a few damning examples of things like actual CP trading, but also that they've been removed.
How many of those 112 instances are honeypots controlled by the FBI or another law enforcement agency?
112 images out of 325,000 images scanned over two days, is about 0,03% So we are doing pretty well. With more moderation tools we could continue to knock out those sigmas.
TakatakatakatakatakThere are communities on NSFW Lemmy where people intentionally present as children engaged in sexual abuse scenarios. They’re adults and this is their kink that everyone is supposed to tolerate and pretend is ok.
See defederation drama over the last couple of days. What I’m saying is, the hashtags mean nothing.
They’re adults
then what’s the problem?
No, that admin lied about the community
There are communities on NSFW Lemmy where people intentionally present as children engaged in sexual abuse scenarios.
If you are referring to the community that was cited as the reason for defederation, this is completely false. The community in question is adorableporn, extremely similar to the subreddit of the same name. No one, in any manner, in either community, presents as a child. While yes, the women that post there tend to be on the shorter and thinner side, calling short, thin adults 'children' is not being honest.
To be clear, this community is about petite women. This community is NOT about women with a kink to present as a child.
And what of all the other bait communities? Come on. It’s not ok.
What other bait communities? We can't just accept "think of the children" as an excuse. That doesn't work.
Yes, no one wants actual CSAM to show up in their feed, we can all completely agree on that. But just because some middle-aged woman can't tell the difference between a 20 year old and a 15 year old, doesn't make images of the 20 year old CSAM.
yarnThe suggestions in their direction for future improvement section should be implemented sooner rather than later. There’s no point in growing this platform if it’s going to be left wide open for abuse like it is.
I also think, in lieu of lemmy devs making any improvements, another good solution would be for a third party to prop something up that scrapes every lemmy post and runs it through an automated service for detecting known CSAM. The third party service would be forcing at least one of those future improvements on lemmy, as it exists today. Any known CSAM that’s found would be automatically reported, and if the instance owners can’t deal with it, then they would rightfully have to deal with the consequences of their inactions.
indigojasperyeahhh the free internet is a bit like a wild west. maybe ain't for children. maybe gotta keep em behind more secure digital walls while they're growing before letting em loose. but still gotta teach em media literacy and safe internet practices and such.
but lbr this isn't gonna stop the more persistent kids
RottcoddThis isn't science - it's propaganda.