vintage screwlisp accountJul 16, 2023

#OldComputerChallenge last day #gopher / toot 1:
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-1-plan-composition-and-retrospective.txt
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-1-plan-composition-and-retrospective.txt

Old Computer Challenge Directory (and web proxy:)
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/1/~screwtape/

#zetalisp #lispm #lisp source and usage (like debugging..)

In which I define LIST records as situation calculus actions over :keyword fluents (for a PLANNER).

Basically an argument to use LISP for mathematics like Sussman, but to culturally inherit Zetalisp's SET-DIFFERENCE and INTERSECTION of LISTs

0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-1-plan-composition-and-retrospective.txt

Show threadvintage screwlisp accountJul 16, 2023

Some extended thoughts.
While I like using sets of currently-true :keyword fluents (changeable predicates), this leads to negative predicates as (and (not (member x CANTS))) or something, similar to how many lisp functions had both :IF and :IF-NOT qualification keys, but the IF-NOTs were mostly deprecated in common lisp 2e by (complement #'predicate )s.

How does this gel with your constraints @nil ? knowledges @icedquinn

also I want to make a planner-based time scheduler @trurl

Show threaddstuJul 16, 2023

@screwtape @nil @icedquinn

I always suggest planner-mode (https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/PlannerMode) for basic workflows and a UI that just worked. org-mode, as much as it has going for it, never really clicked the way planner-mode did. Simple domain models are good.

Remind me if you want to see the old project I had going before having kids. The design is not documented, but the code is. Some Elisp, some Rust.

Tagging @sachac for planner-mode expertise.

EmacsWiki: Planner Mode

Show threadvintage screwlisp account

@trurl
I was thinking of asking for that. I am also especially interested in elisp / major mode design at the moment because for old computer challenge I have been using the #lispm whose emacs implementation is #zmacs with #zetalisp major modes (and not gnu or lucient emacs with emacs-lisp).

I wonder if there is or was a near-antecedent to planner-mode major mode for Zmacs ? @amszmidt are you familiar with any TODO style major modes now or previously for zmacs?

@nil @icedquinn @sachac

Jul 16, 2023 at 3:01amWeb
Show threaddstuJul 16, 2023

@screwtape @amszmidt @nil @icedquinn @sachac

I'll have to try for a copyright release from My Employer to share the code, but I don't think that will be hard (other than the bureaucracy).

planner-mode was originally based on wiki-mode (https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsWikiMode). wiki-mode was displaced by muse-mode (and org-mode won in the end).

Prior art: M-x calendar and the diary (https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Calendar_002fDiary.html). This dates at least back to Emacs 18.59 in 1992 (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/emacs/emacs-18.59.tar.gz).

EmacsWiki: Emacs Wiki Mode

Show threadvintage screwlisp accountJul 16, 2023
@trurl
Well no pressure, but if you do and it makes sense to me I will try to straddle it into zmacs, and then maybe forward in time into gnu emacs again. I believe the MIT-CADR vm I am using simulates the c. 1981 #lispm with #zmacs implemented by ZWEI, whose source I have not yet gotten into. On the last lispy gopher show, people in the live COM chat were filling me on ZWEI->EINE, zmacs->Hemlock time progressions. ....->GNU emacs
@amszmidt @nil @icedquinn @sachac
Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] The MIT CADR being simulated is from around 1981… but the #LispM system is from 1984-5ish. The hardware wasn’t modified when it settled down, the software side was hacked heavily.
Show threadvintage screwlisp accountJul 16, 2023
@amszmidt
Ah, I understand. I was a bit confused about this. For example the 4e chinual doesn't mention builtins like #'INTERSECTION or #'SET-DIFFERENCE on lists.
@trurl @nil @sachac
Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] yup, those got added later.
Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] outline mode is probably the earliest, but I don’t know if any special todo mode for Zmacs. People didn’t use things that way back then.
Show threadvintage screwlisp accountJul 16, 2023

@amszmidt @trurl @nil @sachac

#PDP10

I have to get on to check what I'm doing after lunch

Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] you could perhaps look at the old release notes, those are sorta todo ish and sorta outline ish. https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/history.html
LM-3 --- Lisp Machine System Release History

Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] a common way of handling todo items was to just use TODO or some other such tag (—- or —-!!! Or some such); and then just M-x occur on it. In conjunction with a flat text file for larger items. https://tumbleweed.nu/r/sys/file?name=zwei/bugs.status&ci=tip
sys: bugs.status at tip

Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtJul 16, 2023
@screwtape @trurl @[email protected] @[email protected] (on a different note, I’d argue that todo modes etc are anti-emacs features — but that is for another series of Bite Me)