astral_avocadoJul 10, 2023

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance

https://lemmynsfw.com/post/262488

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance - Lemmy NSFW

For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff! The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism.

Show threadPrandom_returnsJul 12, 2023

Yep. Some of the mods that mod 5+ communities are openly calling NATO fascist.

There’s a lot of pro-china sentiment where users encourage people moving to china, denying Tianmen Square events, and encourage full annexation of Taiwan.

It’s just lemmingrad 2.0

I block every .ml instance on sight, as they’re laced with tankie propaganda/agenda.

Show threadBelieveRevoltJul 12, 2023

openly calling NATO fascist

No lies detected. Fascist dictatorship Portugal was a founding member.

Show threadPrandom_returnsJul 12, 2023
If you honestly think that modern day NATO is fascist, you’re either uninformed, misinformed or a moron.
Show threadBelieveRevoltJul 12, 2023

Oh yeah, now they have known bastions of democracy Turkey, Hungary and Poland as members.

Ask Serbians, Afghans, Iraqis and Libyans what they think of your wholesome 100 NATO.

Show threadAceticonJul 12, 2023

By the very same “by association, present or historical” “logic” you could say that the whole of NATO is Feminist (because some heads of state are openly Feminist women), Machist (some are pretty machist men), impeccably fair Democracies (take your pick), Communist (take your pick of members which were once Communist), Dictatorships with a Theocratic leaning (ahem, Turkey), Rich (take your pick), Poor (take your pick), an association of Small Nations (take your pick), an association of Large nations (take your pick), Social Democrat (take your pick), Socialist (the very Portugal you mention is governed by a party called the Socialist Party), Dead (most founding head of state are dead by now), Alive (lots of living heads of state), Anti-Nazi (lots of member states fough the Nazis), Pro-Nazi (some member states were Nazi), Mountainous (take your pick), Flat (ahem, The Netherlands) and so on.

This is because “by association” “arguments” just as the one which is the cornerstone of your comment are complete total jokes in logical terms - you can’t pick a trait of one member (long ago) and claim that “they’re all like that”.

Shit, that’s exactly the kind of “argument” the far-right newspapers in the UK use to demonize the poor.

If you trully believe that line of yours, you’re either totally brainwashed or a moron (the latter very much in the medical sense).

Show threadBelieveRevolt
”For association” was not the ”cornerstone” of my comment, although it’s pretty damning that the other founding nations would knowingly allow a fascist nation to join. NATO is an organization built on enforcing US hegemony. Fascist may not technically be the right term for that, but whatever.
Jul 12, 2023 at 6:37pmWeb
Show threadAceticonJul 13, 2023

That’s just another falacy.

This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.

Also you’re still keeping the whole “if rhey qere so half a century ago, they’re still so now” angle.

It’s basically the guilt by association falacy but with “like” rather than “is”, i.e. NATO likes Feminist, Machist, pro-Nazi, anti-Nazi, Flat, Mountainous and so on countries because it let countries with such characteristic in.

The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which is not the case since NATO is a military alliance.

Show threadBelieveRevoltJul 13, 2023

This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.

It kind of is. Would they have allowed a communist nation to join? I highly doubt it. They could’ve easily said, ”no, you’re fascists, go away.” It’s not like getting fucking Portugal to join was essential.

Also you’re still keeping the whole “if they did so half a century ago, they approve of that kind of thing now” angle.

Hungary and Poland are fascist.

The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which let in a country with opposite characteristics, which is not the case here since NATO is a military alliance.

I would agree with this, because at face value it’s true. Liberals are always calling NATO a group of civilized, European, democratic nations though, so you can’t have it both ways.

Show threadAceticonJul 13, 2023

Well, that’s the thing: you can accuse some (maybe most) leaders of NATO countries of being hypocrites and I’ll agree with you on that.

In fact said leaders are equally hypocrite in exactly the same way also outside that NATO context: look at Macron’s authoritarianism in France imposing his will by decree and supporting the most violent thuggish police in all of Western Europe, or the long long history of the US invading countries for their oil whilst claiming it’s to free them or Britain’s harping about Democracy whilst being “strong allies of Saudi Arabia” (and having one of the least democratic voting system in Europe).

(Mind you, so called “Communist” or ex-“Communist” [I’m sorry but no country still in the “Dictatorship Of The Proletariat” stage with an elite that controls it and self-proclaimed as representatives of the Proletariat has actually reached Communism as per Marx’s definition, so there is not a single genuine Communist nation in the World] are just as hypocrite: look at China’s treatment of Tibetans and support for the next door de-facto Kim Monarchy and at how Russia has been breaking world record after world record in hypocrisy of late)

However that wasn’t your original accusation: your original accusation was that NATO is a Fascist Organization.

Claiming an entire organisation is Fascist is worlds away from saying that some heads of state in it are hypocrites, including in the context of NATO.

Claims that NATO is Democratic are bullshit. Claims that it’s Fascist are even more bullshit.