Mastodawn

astral_avocado Jul 10, 2023

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance

https://lemmynsfw.com/post/262488

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance - Lemmy NSFW

For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff! The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism.

Prandom_returns Jul 12, 2023

Yep. Some of the mods that mod 5+ communities are openly calling NATO fascist.

There’s a lot of pro-china sentiment where users encourage people moving to china, denying Tianmen Square events, and encourage full annexation of Taiwan.

It’s just lemmingrad 2.0

I block every .ml instance on sight, as they’re laced with tankie propaganda/agenda.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

openly calling NATO fascist

No lies detected. Fascist dictatorship Portugal was a founding member.

Prandom_returns

If you honestly think that modern day NATO is fascist, you’re either uninformed, misinformed or a moron.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

Oh yeah, now they have known bastions of democracy Turkey, Hungary and Poland as members.

Ask Serbians, Afghans, Iraqis and Libyans what they think of your wholesome 100 NATO.

Prandom_returns Jul 12, 2023

So a moron. See you on the block list.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

lol, typical liberal cowardice. No comeback to a well argued post? Better block them so I don’t have to think about my worldview in any way!

Mdotaut801 Jul 12, 2023

I thought we got rid of fascist, right wing losers. Don’t you guys like your echo chambers? Then go to truth social or twitter. Don’t bring your garbage views here. Thanks

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

anti-NATO right-wing

Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?

Mdotaut801 Jul 12, 2023

You

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

I don’t feel like I’m smart, I’d save average at best…but I truly do feel like the majority of the general public that I am around is less intelligent than I am

Why would that make sense? Yuki has 2 points this season, Perez has 5 podiums and like 156 points. Why would RB downgrade MASSIVELY?

lmao, I really am dealing with a bona fide genius here.

_wintermute Jul 12, 2023

You’re talking to a leftist, not someone on the right, champ.

GONADS125 Jul 12, 2023

It’s just not worth devoting the time to argue with people like yourself who are so indoctrinated and misinformed. Your maladaptive thinking style can’t even begin to be reprogrammed until you yourself realize that you’ve fallen victim to this.

So there’s just no reason to devote time and effort articulating a well-argued retort with supporting evidence when your beliefs aren’t based in reality, you can’t effectively scrutinize accurate information, and your beliefs are so deeply internalized and unwilling to be challenged, that it feels like devoting the time of day to argue with a toddler who can’t grasp the concept you’re discussing.

The truth is, trying to debate people like you is a useless, fruitless waste of time. You’re going to reject information, truths and logic you do not like, and your delusional beliefs will remain insulated by rationalization and other maladaptive coping strategies to reduce the cognitive dissonance you experience when you have that momentary realization that your beliefs may not be accurate.

The truth is you’re just a waste of time for reasonable people to engage with. I’m not going to waste my time debating you here, but feel free to respond and get the last word in. I know that helps people feel like they’ve “won” an argument. You can respond with ad hominem, deflection, and baseless accusations against me like you’ve done to others. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re damaged goods no one here feels obligated or interested in engaging with.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

That’s a lot of words for a post that essentially says nothing. Hopefully someone makes an AI version of Fragmaster’s nerd voice, so that insufferable post can be read out loud by it.

The funny thing is that all I said was NATO was bad because they tolerate fascist members and attacked a bunch of countries for no reason…which is all based on facts.

Grant_M Jul 12, 2023

I block all pro-ruscist accounts. Congratulations for making the cut!

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

Saying NATO is bad = pro-Russia

Liberal arguments at their finest 👍

Prandom_returns Jul 12, 2023

Yeah, I don’t debate these clowns for the same resons I don’t debate pigeons.

Aceticon Jul 12, 2023

By the very same “by association, present or historical” “logic” you could say that the whole of NATO is Feminist (because some heads of state are openly Feminist women), Machist (some are pretty machist men), impeccably fair Democracies (take your pick), Communist (take your pick of members which were once Communist), Dictatorships with a Theocratic leaning (ahem, Turkey), Rich (take your pick), Poor (take your pick), an association of Small Nations (take your pick), an association of Large nations (take your pick), Social Democrat (take your pick), Socialist (the very Portugal you mention is governed by a party called the Socialist Party), Dead (most founding head of state are dead by now), Alive (lots of living heads of state), Anti-Nazi (lots of member states fough the Nazis), Pro-Nazi (some member states were Nazi), Mountainous (take your pick), Flat (ahem, The Netherlands) and so on.

This is because “by association” “arguments” just as the one which is the cornerstone of your comment are complete total jokes in logical terms - you can’t pick a trait of one member (long ago) and claim that “they’re all like that”.

Shit, that’s exactly the kind of “argument” the far-right newspapers in the UK use to demonize the poor.

If you trully believe that line of yours, you’re either totally brainwashed or a moron (the latter very much in the medical sense).

FaeDrifter Jul 12, 2023

Thank you for that very satisfying beatdown of a bad faith troll.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

”For association” was not the ”cornerstone” of my comment, although it’s pretty damning that the other founding nations would knowingly allow a fascist nation to join. NATO is an organization built on enforcing US hegemony. Fascist may not technically be the right term for that, but whatever.

Aceticon Jul 13, 2023

That’s just another falacy.

This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.

Also you’re still keeping the whole “if rhey qere so half a century ago, they’re still so now” angle.

It’s basically the guilt by association falacy but with “like” rather than “is”, i.e. NATO likes Feminist, Machist, pro-Nazi, anti-Nazi, Flat, Mountainous and so on countries because it let countries with such characteristic in.

The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which is not the case since NATO is a military alliance.

BelieveRevolt Jul 13, 2023

This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.

It kind of is. Would they have allowed a communist nation to join? I highly doubt it. They could’ve easily said, ”no, you’re fascists, go away.” It’s not like getting fucking Portugal to join was essential.

Also you’re still keeping the whole “if they did so half a century ago, they approve of that kind of thing now” angle.

Hungary and Poland are fascist.

The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which let in a country with opposite characteristics, which is not the case here since NATO is a military alliance.

I would agree with this, because at face value it’s true. Liberals are always calling NATO a group of civilized, European, democratic nations though, so you can’t have it both ways.

Aceticon Jul 13, 2023

Well, that’s the thing: you can accuse some (maybe most) leaders of NATO countries of being hypocrites and I’ll agree with you on that.

In fact said leaders are equally hypocrite in exactly the same way also outside that NATO context: look at Macron’s authoritarianism in France imposing his will by decree and supporting the most violent thuggish police in all of Western Europe, or the long long history of the US invading countries for their oil whilst claiming it’s to free them or Britain’s harping about Democracy whilst being “strong allies of Saudi Arabia” (and having one of the least democratic voting system in Europe).

(Mind you, so called “Communist” or ex-“Communist” [I’m sorry but no country still in the “Dictatorship Of The Proletariat” stage with an elite that controls it and self-proclaimed as representatives of the Proletariat has actually reached Communism as per Marx’s definition, so there is not a single genuine Communist nation in the World] are just as hypocrite: look at China’s treatment of Tibetans and support for the next door de-facto Kim Monarchy and at how Russia has been breaking world record after world record in hypocrisy of late)

However that wasn’t your original accusation: your original accusation was that NATO is a Fascist Organization.

Claiming an entire organisation is Fascist is worlds away from saying that some heads of state in it are hypocrites, including in the context of NATO.

Claims that NATO is Democratic are bullshit. Claims that it’s Fascist are even more bullshit.

Maggoty Jul 12, 2023

The same Iraqis that no longer have to worry about Saddam doing stupid shit? Who can now elect their leaders again? They don’t think the US is the best but they sure aren’t in the same category as the Serbians.

Anti US people are so used to the US fucking up they forget that we actually do a good every now and then.

BelieveRevolt Jul 12, 2023

Are you seriously saying that the Iraq War was anything but a major fuckup by the US? Sure, they can elect their own leaders for a massively corrupt government, and many people are suffering because after the US invasion a lot of infrastructure was privatized in suspect deals. Iraq still can’t produce as much electricity as before the war. Listen to Blowback season one if you want some real info on the buildup and the war.

You’re right in that there are a few million Iraqis that don’t have to worry anymore. That might be because they’re dead, but semantics 😉

Maggoty Jul 12, 2023

What about that last sentence makes you think that I think it was all flowers and sunshine?

At the end of the day they have a better government and if they hadn’t partnered with the American soldiers then we’d have fought AQ there for twenty years just like the Taliban in Afghanistan. I don’t have any concept that all Iraqis love the US. But the Iranian backed militias ain’t the majority opinion either. So yeah. There was a good thing done in there.