ErC

It's official: Cluster bombs will be sent to Ukraine.

Banned in most of the world except #Ukraine, #USA and #Russia, because of the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians they cause.

This escalations from the US follows the many others ("defence weapons", long range artillery, tanks, etc) that were considered madness at the beginning of the Russian aggression.

The world doesn't seem to have learnt that "we do it for the greater good" doesn't lead to anything good.

What's the next forbidden weapon that will be rebranded as good because"the good guys" are the ones using it?

End this madness now.

#Noclusterbombs

Jul 8, 2023 at 10:23amWeb
Show threadMichaelJul 8, 2023
@erc So how should the “madness” end? With Russia taking over Ukraine and treating its people as brutally as they’ve done in the p places they occupy? The best way to end the “madness” is to arm Ukraine sufficiently so they can defeat Russia. Otherwise, I’m addition to the horrors for the Ukrainian people, it will be our turn before long. (See for example Sudatenland 1938) #Ukraine
Show threadErCJul 8, 2023

@mqs Ukraine doesn't have the capability to defeat Russia. The entire NATO alliance has been sending weapons for months and the so much waited counteroffensive is a flop.

The concept that Russia will not stop with Ukraine and go on invading the rest of europe is beyond absurd and disregards the history of this conflict and of Russia. It's great for war propaganda tho.

Show threadMichaelJul 8, 2023
@erc I disagree with all three assertions. Time will tell but continued support from #Ukraine allies is key, and much easier (for us) than doing the fighting ourselves.
Show threadErCJul 8, 2023

This idea that Russia wants to conquer the world is pure propaganda meant to scare people into supporting this war, but makes 0 sense. The idea that Russia will easily attack a NATO country because they are evil and bad is laughable.

If you are ok with sending forbidden and deadly weapons to civilians (the UK first with uranium munitions, known for causing long term health issues to the soldiers who uses them and the US now with cluster bombs), are you so much better than the so feared Russians that are the evil personified?

What's the next forbidden weapon the west is willing to send in the name of the greater good?

This is madness has to stop before it's too late.

Show threadToni ScottJul 8, 2023
@erc @mqs
Do what’s your answer? Give in to murder, rape, torture, cultural despoliation, child abduction, and genocide? Or put up a fight? You must not appease bullies.
Show threadToni ScottJul 8, 2023
@erc
So, you support genocide, do you?
Show threadLukáš ZapletalJul 8, 2023

@erc no cluster bombs are being sent. These are 155mm artilery shells.

This ammunition is being used by Russia in Ukraine. They use a type that is really very dangerous with about 30% failure rate. US is sending modern type which is known to fail at about 3%.

Russians are shelling and bombing cities with these. Ukraine army signed they will not use it in cities or Russian land.

Moscow miscalculated all of it, yes. Your statements are absurd.

Show threadErCJul 8, 2023

@lzap You are very much wrong in all your points:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/07/us/cluster-weapons-duds-ukraine.html

Ukraine also assured allies they would not target Russian cities with the artillery they provided. They not only did that but also attacked Russian cities with drones. You might agree with that, but doesn't change the fact that they "signed" they wouldn't do something and than did it anyway (and allies were pissed)

They are desperate and will do anything to defend their country (rightfully), but building an alternative reality to justify whatever actions is not a good way to go.

Cluster Weapons U.S. Is Sending Ukraine Often Fail to Detonate

The Pentagon’s statements indicate that the cluster munitions that will be sent to Ukraine contain older grenades known to have a failure rate of 14 percent or more.

The New York Times
Show threadLukáš ZapletalJul 8, 2023
@erc I spent my childhood under Russian occupation. Russian soilders did something terrible to my family. I say it is okay. US leadership say it is okay. Nobody cares about your “arguments” and opinion. Nobody actually asked for it.
Show threadNaktene 🏳️‍🌈Jul 8, 2023
@erc Russia has already sent cluster bombs to Ukraine - as part of their illegal aggression. Ukraine needs to defend itself against those orcs. If Ukraine won't use them, Russia still will.
p.s. More than 3 countries allow cluster munition, see the map (countries in purple have ratified the convention).
Show threadErCJul 8, 2023

@naktene Cluster bombs kill civilians indiscriminately. Using them is wrong and like fighting evil with evil.

The UN human rights associations condemned the use of cluster bombs in Ukraine. Both sides.

Show threadNaktene 🏳️‍🌈Jul 8, 2023
@erc Ukraine not using cluster munitions wouldn't stop Russia using them.