Mastodawn

myrmepropagandist Jul 7, 2023

I think the real “problem” the fediverse has isn’t that it’s hard to use, it’s that it doesn’t fit the pattern. It’s like if someone asks “what grocery do you order from?” and you respond “My building’s co-op, I get meals & fresh food delivered from participating farms & cooks— I do solar panel maintenance and run the website in return— plus goodie fees”
“goodie fees? … um … so is that like UberEats then?”

And what’s worse is it sounds more complex because it’s atypical— but really it’s easier

John Conway Jul 7, 2023

@futurebird I *hope* Threads federating will get people to understand.

@john @futurebird I'm pretty sure it'll only make things worse / confuse people more.

John Conway Jul 7, 2023

@tim @futurebird worse in what respect?

Tim W RESISTS Jul 7, 2023

@john @futurebird

"I'm such-and-such on Threads"

"Oh cool I'm on the Fediverse too, I'm @ tim @ union.place"

"What's a Fediverse?"

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jul 8, 2023

Hahaha ha, ahhh, if only. More like:

"I couldn't find you @ tim or @ union.place, which is it?"

"I'm not on Fediverse* but I downloaded the app and it was full of spyware!"

*coming from a scammer near you!

🦣丁斯特Dingster Jul 8, 2023

@tim @john @futurebird I don’t think people need to understand what #Fediverse is. Not an ordinary person understands how emails actually work. So long as people know that they can communicate and see other platforms from one provider, it is good enough. Average users just need to use the product.

John Conway Jul 8, 2023

@leftsidestory @tim @futurebird this is the very thing I’m talking about. So many people to not understand that.

🦣丁斯特Dingster Jul 8, 2023

@john @tim @futurebird Yeah. That is why I’m not against #Threads being federated at all. At least not for now. A major mainstream company would speed up the infrastructure change of the whole scene. I tend to think it positively

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jul 8, 2023

It's the verification of and platforming of known hate groups like "gays against groomers" and "Libs of tiktok". That and the labels of disinformation on those accounts applied by people are being removed.

If threads had the same standards of moderation as the Fediverse, I'd be over there selling them books.

@john @tim @futurebird

whetstone Jul 8, 2023

@Homebrewandhacking @leftsidestory @john @tim @futurebird This is my concern too. Threads is huge, and if their moderation causes problems (which I am quite sure it will) then defederation will cut off all of those newbies from the well-moderated instances. As it should! We shouldn’t federate with the host of LoTT! But I doubt they’ll have a real chance to see how much better it can be.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jul 8, 2023

@whetstone @leftsidestory @john @tim @futurebird

Well @atomicpoet favours buffer/filter servers as sort of ambassadors. Not sure they'd be able to keep up with the technical demand of federation with Threads.

I'm not an expert but having a massive server look at you is pretty bad for small servers, even if it's friendly. All the messages back and forth are too much for smaller hosts.

That's my understanding anyway.

John Conway Jul 8, 2023

@Homebrewandhacking @whetstone @leftsidestory @tim @futurebird @atomicpoet I think there’s a problem with broadcasting deletions, but I’m sure Threads would solve that before launch. I’m not sure what other specific messages are meant to cause stress, but I can’t imagine why this would be much of technical hurdle for Meta. It’s not like federation exposes you to the firehose.

John Conway Jul 8, 2023

@Homebrewandhacking @whetstone @leftsidestory @tim @futurebird @atomicpoet although I have to say I’m not really an expert, but @Gargron seems to think it can work, and he devotedly is 😉

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jul 8, 2023

Well the small server people see a problem, and I would say they're more experts on small servers so I guess we'll find out.

🦣丁斯特Dingster Jul 8, 2023

@Homebrewandhacking My personal experience is that moderation helps only to the point where people are already restraint and responsible enough to be moderated. It is the same thing about the legal system in my opinion. Most people abide by the law while others manipulate and try to find its loopholes. I just feel that the right thing to do is to push companies like #Meta to come up with better moderation policies instead of singling them out.

🦣丁斯特Dingster Jul 8, 2023

@Homebrewandhacking The perfect example would be after congressional hearings #Twitter and #Meta did try to come up with modification policies, despite being not so successful. But it is addressed well and in public and they have been constantly under pressure from different parties.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jul 8, 2023

They are ad-driven platforms. They will allow as much hate as legally allowed. Hate and rage clicks does drive traffic and eyeballs.

If your money comes from ads that is your incentive.

If your money comes from users then your incentives are to keep your users happy. Good moderation and consistent uptime.

Any other analysis ignores these economic realities.