Final thoughts on the Red Hat thing: every supporter of the Red Hat move told me that "it's normal to want to prevent people from stealing the hard work and making a clone of it".

If you think grabbing the code and reusing it is "stealing", you don't understand FOSS.

No matter what RH clones contribute, or if they're worth it. That's not the point. The point is, RH builds their stuff using the GPL, and they have to redistribute using the GPL.

Making access to a specific part of that code harder on purpose goes against the principles of Free Software.

Period. Money doesn't factor into this, value, contribution, they don't matter. FOSS is free to use, whether you contribute or not. FOSS is for everyone, "freeloaders", developers, anyone. That's the very point.

Yes, the code is still technically available with a bit more work in Stream's repos. That's not the issue. The "people are stealing from us" talk is the issue.

When a company that works in FOSS, and depends on it to operate, calls people using their GPL rights "freeloaders", you know they've lost the plot.

That's the problem. The value, the contribution, the development, the clone or not, the business: it DOESN'T MATTER.

@thelinuxEXP and what do you expect then?

The main RHEL clients are enterprise, because of long term support (it's 10 years AFAIK?) and some specific (probably proprietary) software that's being built only for RHEL. There is no reason to build RHEL bug-to-bug compatible distros without the intention of getting away of buying the RHEL license.

If you don't need bug-to-bug compatibility, just use another proper distros, like Debian or hell even CentOS Stream.
@a1ba It doesn’t MATTER. IT IS ALLOWED. It’s how FOSS works. No matter if it’s ok, or not, or the intention.
@thelinuxEXP the spirit of free software is not only about being free as in freedom but also getting paid for the job as it's not free as beer.

Until FOSS community figures this out, we will have underpaid FOSS maintainers.

@a1ba actually, the "free software" is built around the idea of the freedom of the user. It has zero things in terms of "protecting" the developer.

Free Software is actually about restricting the developer so they don't infringe on the freedoms on the users.

@nicemicro yeah and it's not like they're stealing user's freedom, because the package sources are still available, now with the exception of the tools that help to create copycats.
@a1ba available is not enough. being a copycat is like 1 out of the 4 core freedoms. but, RedHat "only" terminate your contract and makes you pay termination fees if you redistribute, but they won't take the software back you already got.
@nicemicro if you want to make a copycat of RHEL, you can figure out exact HEADs and applied patches from CentOS sources yourself. They don't have to make it easy.
@nicemicro ...or you can get the license and ask them about the sources, to comply with GPL.

@a1ba the point is, that by the GPL, you have to get the source code to the exact product you're given, not a "find it over in that garbage pile, it's there somewhere".

and by the gpl, then you are allowed to get that source and redistribute it. If redhat has a problem with that, they have a problem of one of the cornerstones of software freedoms. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

@nicemicro I think in that case RedHat probably will terminate the support contract.

Not sure how they will find a person who actually distributed the SRPM. (By the way, are SRPMS also GPL licensed?..)

In that sense, they could also do typical hardware vendor move, just give you a tarball with the sources. How the user is supposed build it is user's problem.

@a1ba yeah. And this is what they do and they have the right to do that and technically they could give the source printed on toilet paper, so I guess they aren't doing the worst possible thing.

But when they go on air disparaging one of the fundamental software freedoms (redistribution), I can't take their "we're fully committed" message seriously.

@nicemicro >technically they could give the source printed on toilet paper

Reminds me how I found the whole GPL license in accordion fold for Chinese MP3 player box :)

>But when they go on air disparaging one of the fundamental software freedoms

They probably think providing Stream is enough. That's why they killed old CentOS, which didn't solved a problem but spawned a bunch of rebuilds doing nothing useful in general, only changing the logo and distro name.