Nick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023

Final thoughts on the Red Hat thing: every supporter of the Red Hat move told me that "it's normal to want to prevent people from stealing the hard work and making a clone of it".

If you think grabbing the code and reusing it is "stealing", you don't understand FOSS.

No matter what RH clones contribute, or if they're worth it. That's not the point. The point is, RH builds their stuff using the GPL, and they have to redistribute using the GPL.

Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023

Making access to a specific part of that code harder on purpose goes against the principles of Free Software.

Period. Money doesn't factor into this, value, contribution, they don't matter. FOSS is free to use, whether you contribute or not. FOSS is for everyone, "freeloaders", developers, anyone. That's the very point.

Yes, the code is still technically available with a bit more work in Stream's repos. That's not the issue. The "people are stealing from us" talk is the issue.

Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023

When a company that works in FOSS, and depends on it to operate, calls people using their GPL rights "freeloaders", you know they've lost the plot.

That's the problem. The value, the contribution, the development, the clone or not, the business: it DOESN'T MATTER.

Show threaduwu1baJun 29, 2023
@thelinuxEXP and what do you expect then?

The main RHEL clients are enterprise, because of long term support (it's 10 years AFAIK?) and some specific (probably proprietary) software that's being built only for RHEL. There is no reason to build RHEL bug-to-bug compatible distros without the intention of getting away of buying the RHEL license.

If you don't need bug-to-bug compatibility, just use another proper distros, like Debian or hell even CentOS Stream.
Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023
@a1ba It doesn’t MATTER. IT IS ALLOWED. It’s how FOSS works. No matter if it’s ok, or not, or the intention.
Show threaduwu1baJun 29, 2023
@thelinuxEXP the spirit of free software is not only about being free as in freedom but also getting paid for the job as it's not free as beer.

Until FOSS community figures this out, we will have underpaid FOSS maintainers.
Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023
@a1ba And you think RH doesn’t make money? Look at their profits. They’re not struggling. They just need to make MORE because that’s what their shareholders say they should do.
Show threadRobin Edser Jun 29, 2023
@thelinuxEXP @a1ba Seems unfair to negatively judge anyone by how much money they make. I don't personally have an upper limit on how much I'd be willing to get paid for my job.
Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023
@fossrob @a1ba I don’t judge them on the money, I judge this move, billed as “they steal our money” compared to their profits
Show threadRobin Edser Jun 29, 2023
@thelinuxEXP @a1ba Oh right. What then, in your opinion, is a reasonable percentage of Red Hat's revenue that a clone is allowed to take then?
Show threadNick @ The Linux ExperimentJun 29, 2023

@fossrob @a1ba All of it if that’s what happens. It’s on RH to provide better value for their service so people use it.

Also that’s the absolute wrong way of looking at it. The issue isn’t monetary at all, it’s a matter of ignoring the principles of free software. What RH did doesn’t stop clones from taking their business either. It’s just pure pettiness. It makes their work harder but it won’t stop them.

Show threadRobin Edser Jun 29, 2023

@thelinuxEXP You're probably right it won't stop the clones. But calling a business's decision to at least try, "pettiness"?

You seem really upset that RH doesn't want to make it easy and gift wrap the entire package anymore because of the "spirit of free software" (as you interpret it).

And those FOSS principles, to you, also mean they have to pay people to do the gift wrapping (and de-branding)?

Show threadNick @ The Linux Experiment
@fossrob It is petty. It’s “we can’t stop them but we can make their life annoying”.
Jun 29, 2023 at 3:01pmMastodon for iOS
Show threadRobin Edser Jun 29, 2023
@thelinuxEXP So in your view, it's petty for RH to stop paying for people and infrastructure, allocated to de-branding the product 1000's of engineers worked on, that makes it easier for a small group to rebrand, resell, undercut them, and potentially steal ALL of their revenue, ending RH, the FOSS contributors they employ, the sponsored projects, and the clone itself now there's nothing to clone, because that's your view of the free software principles?