Mastodawn

SkentBrott Jun 21, 2023

Gabriele Svelto [moved]

Wherever I look I can see news about a few very rich individuals being stranded on a submarine that was supposed to take them on a tour of the Titanic. The effort put in place to rescue them appears huge in scope.

Last week over six hundred people died in a #shripweck off the coasts of #Greece and nobody cared. Nobody even bothered to start a rescue operation until it was too late.

Stop pretending people are equal, I hate this hypocrisy.

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

Also I refuse to call them immigrants. These are people, human beings.

It's like being called an expat just because you're a wealthy immigrant. I'm not an expat, I'm an immigrant myself, just one that happens to be rich enough to be accepted without a peep.

People literally hide behind the word expat because immigrant is placeholder for poor, and we live in a world that frowns upon poverty as if it were a crime, not a condition deliberately imposed on people.

Ahimsa Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I always thought "expat" meant a person living in another country temporarily (for work, for example). I didn't know it could be used for someone who moved to another country permanently.

I know a couple who did this for years -- move to another country for a job, move back to the USA, repeat. They always used the term expat (she was US citizen, he was Canadian citizen).

(forgot to add that they ended up back in the USA)

Anyway, I've learned something new!

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@ahimsa_pdx that's the correct meaning of expat, you're not wrong. The problem is that most people who call themselves - and are generally referred to - as expats are skilled immigrants that moved into another European country for good (this is obviously my EU-centric POV).

However most of them would probably find the term "skilled immigrant" almost offensive so that's not used anywhere... except on the related government pages which are absolutely blunt about it (see screenshot).

Nate Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto @ahimsa_pdx 100% this, I know people who refer to themselves as future expats, not immigrants. This is a result of the rights (right wing political party in the US) war on language. I feel this is also not lost on people in other countries as they see similar results in their right wing (read authoritarian) party.

Air Adam Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto @ahimsa_pdx and truth be told, plenty of them aren't even that skilled.

Andreas K Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto @ahimsa_pdx
Sigh, I don't think that expat is much of a term in non-English languages at all.

And EU citizens are in a way, not really immigrants in EU countries., differently from “immigrants”, they basically come with a right to live/work/… anywhere in the EU.

It's basically a language problem, that's how we got the "3rd country" term: EU citizens are not completely like natives, but they are certainly even more different from foreigners.

Kasra_mp ✅Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto @ahimsa_pdx - By that definition, I'm a skilled immigrant. But I really don't care if somebody calls me an immigrant or an expat. Behavior and attitude matter the most.
I arrived at this realization a long time ago that I neither bother nor associate myself with people who look down on me because of my country of origin, assumed religion, or skin color. In my honest opinion, such people are beyond saving and live a life of willful ignorance. Let them be happy in their own world.

Olivier Mengué Jun 20, 2023

@ahimsa_pdx @gabrielesvelto The definition of expatriates I know: people (families) sent to another country receiving wages from their home country (or more).

@ahimsa_pdx @gabrielesvelto My family and I were expats for 5 years in the ‘70s when my father’s work transferred him from the US to London, England. Before and after, we were just regular folks. 😊

@ahimsa_pdx @gabrielesvelto Actually we were just regular folks while we were ex-pats in England. 🤣

Cassandrich Jun 21, 2023

@ahimsa_pdx @gabrielesvelto An expat is simply an immigrant whose country of origin is deemed "more desirable" by society than the place they're living and working, rather than less - and who is presumed thereby to only be living/working there temporarily or as a fun adventure.

Ruby Jones Jun 21, 2023

@ahimsa_pdx @gabrielesvelto It's commonly someone living in another country who never really stopped thinking of themselves in terms of the country of origin. Eg Brits in Spain who never think of themselves as Spanish, never engage with the local culture etc, even if they've lived there 20 years. They're just British people taking advantage of another country's better weather. Thinking of themselves as ex pats instead of immigrants is part of maintaining the distance.

Semi Sentient AI Cooling Water Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto Poverty is not a character flaw. Unmitigated greed is.

Stressed Out Maikel 🇪🇺Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto whenever anyone uses the word expat to define themselves my first thought of them is "wow, what a xenophobic c**t I've just met"

amnesiacrobat Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I’d always assumed that renouncing citizenship in your home country was part of being an expatriate. But I searched the definition and it’s not a part of it at all. Not sure of how I came to that misunderstanding, but glad to know I was wrong so I can correct that.

maiamaia Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto refugees, like they were called before Thatcher's tories barred the media from using the word, no idea how I was a child, just remember it happening

maiamaia Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I disagree. Words have histories & meaning clusters. Expat is an empire word. You go abroad to a posh job & mean to retire home. Implies you are a rich person going to a poor country. When I was young 1980s poor britons often worked abroad doing manual labour we did in uk to fund it but seasonal eg grape harvest not factory work like at home. That's not an expat. If I got a factory job abroad, I'm not an expat. If I commit to live there forever, I'm not an expat. Ambassadors? Yes

supernov Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto Good point, also on how humans work I think. The events with the capsizing boat is something we "got used to". We seem to be always wired to focus on difference, unique things. To me it just showcases we're not that advanced as we think we are. It always annoys me that big and small, Import things are usually just worth a news mention for a day or so. We forget fast.

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@supernov yes! The news cycle and the social media cycle want interesting, click-worthy events. Once we normalize letting people drown in the Mediterranean it's not newsworthy anymore.

Loukas (They/Them) 🏳️‍⚧️Jun 20, 2023

@supernov @gabrielesvelto I understand the mechanism you're talking about, but as a former professional journalist i want to say this is based on actual decisions taken by people in newsrooms. There's lots of things journalists have chosen to not normalise, and I'm ashamed of those who have chosen to normalise the Mediterranean death route.

Supership 79 Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto it’s infuriating to me that a billionaire’s toy to poke through a grave site is considered worthy of wall to wall coverage and when small children wash up dead on shore it’s considered a joke

Wolleysegap Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto money doesn't talk, it screams!

DanOla Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto
Soooo true ...😏

Doc AWFL*Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto these folk can well afford to reimburse and should they survive they should be billed. Not that this addresses the hypocrisy or tragedy you refer to but.

John Yarlett aka Scooby62 Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto Absolutely true! There's a lot of resources being devoted to those five. I'm sure that their families are worried about them but no less than those of the Greek shipwreck.

There is no equality, there never was and I doubt that there ever will be.

ZZ Bottom Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto 👍

Aviva Gary Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto People are equal... just not in the system of power/money etc we currently use... therefore The Ill Fated Titanic Tour TM is going to get more press in this system...

Still correct on the whole point though.

Fabrice Desré Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I can't believe that IFREMER is sending a ship to help rescue them. This is French taxpayer money wasted to either save the ass of a few billionaires, or more likely for absolutely nothing.

Maxanene Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto thank you, I've been thinking the same thing. I'm so sick of this framing.

Full Metal Archaeopteryx Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto

As far as I'm concerned, those guys fucked around, and now they're finding out.

The estate should go to the victims of the other shipwreck

#shripweck #greece

Alex Barredo 📉Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto afaik Greek coast guards were near the boat already even before they sank, and offering help by radio that was refused

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-says-migrant-shipwreck-was-greek-search-rescue-waters-2023-06-15/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/greek-leader-disputes-criticism-of-rescue-effort-after-deadly-migrant-shipwreck

Italy says migrant shipwreck was in Greek search and rescue waters

The <a href="/world/europe/greece-hunts-survivors-migrant-shipwreck-least-78-dead-2023-06-15/">shipwreck</a> that killed at least 79 people in international waters off Greece happened in search and rescue waters under Greek responsibility, Italy's interior minister said on Thursday.

Reuters

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@Barredo there's public evidence now that the Greek coast guard lied about the timeline and its actions:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65942426

This is not unexpected: after the shipwreck near Cutro Italian authorities also repeatedly lied about their actions, but the lies were so thin that they were easily disproved with publicly available evidence.

Greece boat disaster: BBC investigation casts doubt on coastguard's claims

The BBC finds evidence an overcrowded fishing vessel was not moving for at least seven hours before it capsized.

BBC News

Alex Barredo 📉Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto oofffffff

Orc Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto the USA, for all of its faults, has a robust coast guard that pulls out all the stops for any marine rescue. The EU’s shameful behavior towards African refugees stands on its own.

no more strolls for empresses Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto
Some cared and are working very hard and even being criminalized for their work.
Others actively encouraged it.
@julieofthespirits

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@ReneMeadowbloom @julieofthespirits that is true, I happen to know some of them firsthand. What I'm furious about is how the global media reports these news.

Asiny Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto Several million $ of taxpayer money going to rescue millionaires as well!

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@asiny I hadn't thought about that, it's always the same sad story: capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich

Raphael Grandin Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto Some background about the ship that is being sent for rescue https://scicomm.xyz/@kajord/110577891785318178

Kelsey Jordahl (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image The French research vessel L'Atalante has been diverted to assist in the search for the submersible #Titan missing at the site of the wreck of the #Titanic. L'Atalante is carrying the ROV Victor 6000, a tethered robotic submersible capable of diving to the site. (I spent a month on L'Atalante on a research expedition in the Pacific in 1999.) https://www.flotteoceanographique.fr/en/Facilities/Vessels-Deep-water-submersible-vehicles-and-Mobile-equipments/Deep-sea-vessels/L-Atalante

A science community for science communication.

shyduroff Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto … +++ …

𝐃𝐫. 𝕵𝖎𝖇𝖗𝖊𝖊𝖑L ₲Ⱬ₮ 🌍Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto ship sinks off the coast of Greece: "the ship is now at a depth where salvage is impractical".

4 billionaires at the bottom of the ocean : "we are doing whatever we can to get to them".

I know its not an exact equivalent - these 4 might be alive, but theres atleast 400 bodies trapped in that ship, dont they deserve dignity?!

TT🇺🇦🇹🇼🇪🇹🇭🇹☪Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto

Just as North Koreans are 'stuck and waiting to die' yet most Americans and the typically ratings-greedy news outlets are obsessed with National Waste of Time dolt 'wannabe dictator' serial criminal: TFG🔴https://rb.gy/okwmp

#iTHiNKLabs 2023: Episode 270

Southern Leftist Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto
The aristocracy is real. Just because one side says it does not invalidate its factuality.

(((Jann Gobble)))🏳️‍🌈Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I wonder, are those billionaires paying for the rescue? Just wondering. This was not a normal trip on a jet or something. This required - I'm sure - them signing releases...which should negate the government's requirements to help them on our dime.

Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. Let billionaires pay for their own rescue when they go underwater 3.8km on what amounts to a sightseeing trip!

cc: @brienneofsnark

Prickly Pam (D-PA)Jun 20, 2023

@jann @gabrielesvelto @brienneofsnark

I agree wholeheartedly.

Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook to rescue their asses.

And if they die, their estates should reimburse us.

Kevin Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto The US coast guard does not operate in Europe. They rescue stranded migrants in North America all the time.

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 20, 2023

@KevinLikesMaps I'm not mad at the US coast guard, European countries sent help: https://fosstodon.org/@fabrice/110577778047290361

The same help they just can't be bothered to send in the Mediterranean

Fabrice Desré (@[email protected])

@gabrielesvelto I can't believe that IFREMER is sending a ship to help rescue them. This is French taxpayer money wasted to either save the ass of a few billionaires, or more likely for absolutely nothing.

Fosstodon

The Evil Microwizard Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I agree entirely with your post but just wanted to mention that you might have a typo in one of your tags, #shripweck ...?

Gabriele Svelto [moved]Jun 21, 2023

@evilmicrowizard someone else pointed it out too, but I noticed too late. If I edit the post it'll send a notification to several thousand people and I don't want to spam them, the post is already visible as it is

NoctisEqui 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇪🇹🏳️‍🌈Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto

Absolutely.

Mark Kennedy Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto society has a remarkably high tolerance for people doing obviously inadvisable shit in the sea just for the hell of it, and remarkably low tolerance for people forced to do inadvisable shit in the sea out of desperation

dag Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto @Wintermute_BBS im not sure if this really is fair. If we hear about a mine collapsing with some workers being trapped we also get news on every channel about the effort to save them. And those are usually pretty poor. I think it’s more about this „time is running out“ and „a rescue mission is underway“ tension that the media and the people are interested in. #framing is everything.

John Refior Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto
"U.S. Coast Guard officials said the[ir] search [had] covered 10,000 square miles (26,000 square kilometers)...Three C-17s from the U.S. military have also been used to move a commercial company’s submersible and support equipment from Buffalo, New York, to St. John’s, Newfoundland...The submersible had seven backup systems to return to the surface"
https://apnews.com/article/titanic-wreckage-missing-submersible-9f0e66fc1df5d9f1e8d262dc7ce0135e
--
#inequality

In race against clock, expanding fleet of ships searches for submersible lost near Titanic wreck

Despite an international rescue effort, U.S. Coast Guard officials said the search covering 10,000 square miles (26,000 square kilometers) had turned up no signs of the lost sub known as the Titan, but they planned to continue looking.

Associated Press

Suoko Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto nobody is pretending that any more, it's almost only written on some "universal rights" pieces of paper that apparently nobody teaches anymore.
As far as I'm OK with it, I'm not sure emigration is a viable long term solution for bad living conditions in some unlucky countries. A counter emigration would probably be a better solution.

Adam I Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto I have such complicated feelings about this whole thing. Obviously every human life is valuable, and I hope these folks are found safe. It’s hard not to notice the tone and breadth of the media coverage though 😕

Earthling Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto

In a political democracy, as long as the economy is still autocratic, there will be always some people who are more "equal" than others!

Ms Daisy's House of Fosters Jun 20, 2023

@gabrielesvelto 😢😢😢

Olav Jun 21, 2023

@gabrielesvelto
There is some cold irony in that the CEO went down with his ship.