Daring FireballJun 19, 2023
Not That Kind of ‘Open’
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/06/19/not-that-kind-of-open
Not That Kind of ‘Open’

Link to: https://fedipact.online/

Daring Fireball
Show threadKornelJun 19, 2023

@daringfireball Openness isn’t merely a protocol thing. It’s a delicate power balance.

When an entity larger than all other combined joins, it may become "too big to fail" and start dictating terms.

Gmail unilaterally dictates who can use SMTP. GitHub became the center of decentralised git. Systems tend to centralise.

Show threadNamanJun 19, 2023

@kornel @daringfireball Yes, and the way to fight with GMail isn’t to “block” gmail from other email services. That hurts the other email services, not Gmail.

Meta’s threads doesn’t *need* ActivityPub. It has Instagram’s far larger network. Blocking them from your mastodon instance only hurts you, not them. It resigns Mastodon to forever being that weird niche rather than part of the mainstream.

Integrate and use it to make yourself mainstream!

Show threadOblomovJun 20, 2023
@nmn @kornel @daringfireball Meta needs AP because the whole point of it is busting the protocol after taking on Twitter and BlueSky.
Show threadNamanJun 20, 2023

@oblomov @kornel @daringfireball Let’s say that’s true. It’s plausible that Meta wants to do the whole “embrace, extend, extinguish” thing.

Defederating them early won’t fix anything. Meta has a huge user base. Threads doesn’t need AP to “bootstrap” content.

It will either steal users from Mastodon, or it won’t. De-federating will incentive more users to switch away from Mastodon. Integrating will let them stay because of the integration.

Show thread~
@nmn @oblomov @kornel @daringfireball
I'm impressed you found the 3 E's terminology and completely missed how it works. they make a compatible instance, it gains a bunch of traction (embrace), they make changes to their instance that other instances can't keep up with, you only get the full experience on *their* instance (extend), so people start moving to their instance, eventually it hits critical mass and it's not viable to be on the fediverse outside of that instance (extinguish)
Jun 20, 2023 at 5:25pmWeb
Show threadNamanJun 21, 2023

@modulusshift @oblomov @kornel @daringfireball I understand how it works. You missed the rest of point. Defederating jumps you directly to the “you only get any experience on their instance” step. So yeah, it’s counter-productive.

Many apps are being built on AP that are “extending” in all sorts of different ways already. These other apps will just have to compete with Meta.

Show thread~Jun 21, 2023
@nmn federating grants them the ability to bootstrap off of the fediverse while they don’t yet have content, and makes their service appealing to people who want to join fedi but don’t know which server. I don’t think their social graph is going to carry over, usually people hate when Instagram tries to copy entire other social networks, like with Stories. There’s also some risk that porting the social graph over directly means it can be copied using AP protocols.
Show threadNamanJun 21, 2023
@modulusshift So even you believe that they’d bring more people to the Fediverse.
Show thread~Jun 21, 2023

@nmn inasmuch as this instance is part of the fediverse, sure. I doubt it will be in practice, so much as a parasitic blob that incidentally connects to the fediverse just enough to suck it dry.

in short: I don't think it's going to make using the broader fediverse any better, and I suspect it's going to eventually attempt to kill it like any centralized-brain company would.

Show threadNamanJun 21, 2023
@modulusshift Then if it’s defederated when it first start doing horrible shit, it’ll have brought no harm to the Fediverse.
Show thread~Jun 21, 2023
@nmn what about in the meantime, when users who would have signed up for other instances are now locked on the other side of the defederation, unwilling or unable to migrate? It would be far better to never let them connect than to split the network even one day in, let alone potentially a year or more in, when they no longer see us as a benefit.
Show threadNamanJun 21, 2023
@modulusshift At least I see your point of view. I think that defederating now versus later is pretty much the same.
I know humans have loss aversion, so it would trigger that. But other than that there’s no difference.