MegJun 17, 2023

God it's depressing that people believe this is the true nature of downtowns:

"Without commuting office workers, the office buildings go empty, they become worth a fraction of their cost, and retail cannot survive."

From https://innovationnation.blog/p/its-companies-fault-we-dont-want

Cities predate commutes. The hollowed out core that triples in population, swelled to bursting with bored and unhappy suburbanites during work hours, is a modern abomination made possible by cars and structural racism.

What's killing downtowns is that we spent so long on this awful vision of work and spent half a century strangling inner city infrastructure to subsidize incredibly expensive suburban lifestyles.

Want to make downtowns viable again? Convert dead office space to apartments and schools and colleges and other spaces people can work *and* live in.

Good luck with your rezoning applications though.

It's Companies' Fault we don't want to Return to the Office

It wasn't appealing to begin with

Innovation Nation
Show thread Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 18, 2023

@megmac Just the idea that lowered land value would make it harder for "retail" is so weird. Restaurants, cafes, small stores, all benefits immensly by lowered rent.

All this seems to be yet another "please will someone think of the landlords" article.

Show threadMegJun 18, 2023
@WhyNotZoidberg I mean, retail will struggle from hollowed out American-style downtowns, but not because of lowered land value. It'll struggle because it requires a customer base and no one wants to drive an hour to a restaurant or a theatre in a dead downtown, and big events every now and then can't sustain them either. In American cores, businesses survive on commuters.
Show thread Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 18, 2023

@megmac Oh I forgot... on the other hand, why not convert those empty offices into apartments? They're structurally sound, they have water and heat... After all homelessness is a deliberately fabricated problem.

Of course that too would crash the land value because having poor people and homeless people moving into small affordable apartments in the middle of skyscraper city is something land owners DO NOT WANT.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Jun 18, 2023
@WhyNotZoidberg @megmac They'd need significant refitting to meet residential plumbing requirements, and to meet residential fire codes. For some buildings it might make more sense to tear them down and start again, but for others it'd just take a massive investment program.
Show thread Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 18, 2023

@AGTMADCAT @megmac

Well, that is the only option tho, isn't it? The alternative would be literal graveyards where the headstones also would be what had died: The Office Building.

Also buildings have been brought up to code before, it happens all the time. If you can bring a 16th century apartment building up to code (despite actually NOT having water or heat, at all, to begin with) I am sure you can bring a 6 story 5 gazillion square feet office building up to code. Or a skyscraper.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Jun 18, 2023
@WhyNotZoidberg @megmac Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm saying that the economic bar to doing so is very high. It's a problem that money can be thrown at, it's just a lot of money to throw. Office parks are much easier than skyscrapers because of the fire requirements (It's easier to add an external fire escape onto a 3 story building than a 30 story one.
Show thread Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 18, 2023

@AGTMADCAT @megmac

Codes are obviously different over here. I can count the number of apartment buildings with external fire escapes I have seen on one hand, and I'm 50 so I have seen a few.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸
@WhyNotZoidberg @megmac Yeah in Europe the ladder truck is considered the secondary exit, so the focus is on keeping the fire delayed until the truck gets there. Here in the US there have to be two exits from everywhere, and the cheapest way to retrofit that when you're carving up a large plate office floor into apartments is with external stairs. Buildings designed to be apartments from the start have other solutions of course.
Jun 18, 2023 at 6:20pmWeb
Show thread Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 18, 2023
@AGTMADCAT Funny enough the code says commercial buildings (including offices) must have two exits here...