Microsoft says the 2-3 year development cycles of big-budget games are over

https://lemmy.world/post/120446

Microsoft says the 2-3 year development cycles of big-budget games are over - Lemmy.world

This seems like this is going to be heavily counteracted by better engines, and AI generation.

I wonder how it'll play out though.

I think so too. The process of content creation will become more efficient. I hope it will allow companies to try new and weird things with less risk.
It'll at the very least make indie studios capable of insane things.
That also. I've been keeping an eye on this kind of technology for my one person projects.
I think this has always been the case, though. Engines haven't just suddenly got better, they've been getting better and better for decades now. Some of those improvements give you features "out of the box" that you used to have to implement yourself. One of the reasons Unity became so popular with smaller developers is because it lets you focus on building your game - most of the tech is there, you've got an asset store for additional models, plugins, etc. so save you time but ultimately making a (good) game still takes time. Making a game is a very iterative process and a lot of the quality of a game these days is less to do with developing the engine and more to develop the mechanics of the game itself - the way your characters move, the responsiveness of the controls, the UI layout and so on. All of that stuff is hard to be given to you by an Engine, because it's specific to your game.
Exactly, we've been getting better engines, tools and educated game devs for the past decade too and it's what led to current situation. I don't think AI is going to help with anything, it will just result in more soulless cash grabs if it's used the same way ChatGPT has been lately.
Procedural terrain generation in Deep Rock Galactic is pretty cool. I could see also using it for textures and NPCs to make a game more varied for not much more work.
It's pretty good, agreed, but we've had procedural generation since before minecraft. It doesn't have anything to do with ML/AI afaik.

The problem with procgen for variety is that it's almost always a few procedural changes layered onto a finite, typically small, set of "types". You can see this in games like No Man's Sky, where there are technically billions of different animals that you might encounter on a planet, but a lot of them are pretty similar. Even in DRG with their terrain gen, they're building on room templates that you'll start to recognize the more you play.

It's kind of like those ad campaigns about how many millions of ways you can make a burger. Sure, a 1/4 lb cheeseburger with lettuce, tomato, onions, and ketchup on a sesame seed bun is technically different from a 1/4 lb cheeseburger with lettuce, tomato, onions, and mustard on a sesame seed bun, but they're both still burgers. You might hit onto some unique combinations (e.g. meat, cheese, and toast on the bottom, with no top bun -> patty melt) but you're ultimately still just seeing burgers everywhere, and the system that generated the burger isn't ever going to generate aloo gobi.

Wouldn't count on that. Those techniques will help indie developers a lot, but AAA gaming is a constant race of trying to deliver more and more. AAA games are always hopelessly over engineered and once you throw AI into the mix they just raise the bar that AAA games have to hit. Expect ChatGPT flavor-text on every empty beer can you can find in the world. Auto generated quest lines and a whole lot of more stuff.

Indie developer in contrast can focus much more on actually delivering a game, with story, characters and game play. But AAA games are just ginormous piles of meaningless content and AI will help them get even bigger.

It was over a long time ago for me when I realized that most AAA games were all the same. Might as well wait until they're $20 anyway.
There are decades worth of great games already out. People should be open to trying out older games, even if it means slight hurdles in downloading compatibility mods or patches.
Tbf we are already reaching diminishing returns with exponentially increasing the complexity of the game graphics (Polygon count) for some years now. For example, NFS Most Wanted 2012 still looks gorgeous to me to this day.
Style > Graphical fidelity If a game has good style and design, it's amazing how well it can hold up.
Absolutely agreed. What are your favorite stylized games?
I'm not the one asked, but the ones I can think of top of my head are Killer7, which had pretty cool gradient shaders and Borderlands drawn style.
It definitely caters to the OG gamers. Really respects GoldenEye 007.
🎶Understand (understand) the concept (the concept) of LOVE🎶 UNH!
Okami and Wind Waker are the first that come to mind. Both have aged beautifully.

I wish more games would release their engines and tooling as FOSS like id Software used to back in the day. It'd make it easier for games to build on top of one another like mods do.

Maybe Godot and Bevy, etc. will become good enough for full AAA-level games one day. It's nice that Blender is pretty much already there for modelling and animation.

But it's crazy how much great work gets thrown away when games are cancelled or code is lost.

You can just go get Unity or UE right now. With UE you can make a $1million before you need to pay a royalty and the tooling is substantially better than any of the tools I'd released back in the day. (And fwiw I think it's a crying shame id tech engines are no longer open sourced too!)
If games will take so long to create, we will probably also see price increases. They will have to fund that development time in some way. I think I do prefer the games like Skyrim where they did take their time to develop the whole world with a broad storyline and many small things that you can do, instead of rushing out a game in a year or two that has no replay value after playing the main story once.
I think we are already seeing price increases on many games that are starting at $70 (USD) these days. I don’t think we’ll see another increase for quite a while.
we all know this is nonsense, right? like, the development cycles have gotten so long because theyve just decided that its better that way

I'd rather have a long development cycle but deeper, more substantive games.

This isn't anything new - the "Megagames" were famous for having crazily long development times for the era. And some of those went on to be very well received like Ultima VII, Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall, Baldur's Gate, etc. - I remember Baldur's Gate advertising the "90 man-years" required to create it and same for Daggerfall for the (procedurally-filled) map "the size of Great Britain".

There are plenty of companies with short turn-around times, but they make mediocre games.

im not advocating for things like fifa, cod or NBA, but a~15 year wait between games of the same franchise like elder scrolls is pretty ridiculous
AAA gaming is mostly dead for me outside a few studios that make creative and fun games. I'm so tired of FOTM that are designed to appeal to Twitch streamers. The industry kind of reminds me of superhero movies which will always be able to turn a profit by selling to children. I'd take 60FPS and a low budget fun game over 4K and advanced lighting any day, but I'm not the target audience anymore.

I prefer quality over quantity, especially given the number of studios that are out there.

But if this just means we wait 7 years to get a Redfall, yeah.. no..

I prefer quality over quantity

Microsoft has GamePass. They want continuous new releases. They didn't release Redfall because they thought it was ready, they released it because they thought it was good enough to get with a GamePass subscription.

Even Microsoft wasn't happy with Redfall - I don't think it was like they decided to release it in that state because of Game Pass, it seems the whole project was a greed-driven disaster that started prior to the Microsoft acquisition.

Even Microsoft wasn’t happy with Redfall - I don’t think it was like they decided to release it in that state because of Game Pass

If Redfall was a one-off, I'd agree but a decline of quality is going on for years:

  • Crackdown 3: mediocre at best
  • Battletoads 2020: again, mediocre at best
  • Gears 5: merely "mostly positive" on Steam but hardly a gangbuster
  • Halo Infinite Campaign: "Mixed" on Steam
  • Deathloop: "mostly positive"

Those "mostly positive" games are exactly the 7/10 level of quality that can be farted out on a somewhat regular bases while being good enough to justify a GamePass subscription. Redfall with its "mostly negative" (33% are positive) on Steam isn't that far off Halo Infinite's "mixed" single player campaign (48% positive). Sure, Microsoft would have wanted Redfall to be better but I still read the releases, especially the hyped ones, more as a getting them out the door because GamePass situation.

Microsoft's best releases (Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush) are smaller-scale efforts.

The next big thing are full RT graphics without rasterization. The industry will then need the next 10 years or so to fully adapt on that.

After that there won't be any more great improvements. RT already means full realism. You can't make it more realistic.

There are many areas that can be improved upon to make games more realistic, just probably not graphical. NPCs using smarter AI, better physics, a more dynamic environment (better destruction, better NPC interaction with objects), and who knows what else that I can't think of now. There's still a lot of progress to be made, I just don't know if we'll have enough horsepower to run all of that, we're already reaching physical limitations on chips.
Yet they're the ones making a new flight simulator while everyone was expecting them to stick to the current one and make it better over time for at least 10 years (as Microsoft said)
I mean I'm a fan of elder scrolls. What's going to happen it its development cycle?
I mean if it got to 9 years between games, that eould be a big improvement for TES. Skyrim came out in 2011.
Exactly. What's going to happen? 30 yr dev cycles?
The death of one-off mainstream game releases and live services made out of everything. Hope I'm not right.

I just assumed that AAA are going to be online-only and jammed with macro-transactions.

COUGH Fallout76 COUGH GTA-Online

Cheers -Henry

i want shorter games with worse graphics made by people who are paid more to work less and i'm not kidding

After playing Battlefield 3 and feeling an indescribable emptyness for AAA games, I turned to indie developers. The desire for more profits can really suck the uniqueness and character from a game when it's designed for accessibility to as many people as possible.

Bonus points if the game supports modding. It's a great way to extend the life of a game as well. Some of my first online gaming memories are from Quake and it's modding scene. Even Sven Co-op is still developing their mod for Half-Life to this very year.

Games like that seem to have a bit more passion behind it which gives it a bit more charm. It's been a bit sad watching old titles milked dry throughout the years in the name of the mighty dollar. Unfortunately the struggle now is finding those gems in a sea of mediocrity as gaming became more mainstream.

I mean, look at Silica and compare it COD or Battlefield. Smaller indie project, supported by a bigger publisher and filled with heart. It looks like a dream game from when I was a kid.

Battlezone meets Starcraft.

It looks great! Definitely going to give it a try.
Sometimes I will just go through the Steam Discovery Queue for like half an hour, it does a pretty good job if you properly give steam your opinion on the games.
Same. Be cool if there was some kind of "ethically made without worker exploitation" seal of approval for games.

We already have that, it's called FOSS.

Facetiousness aside, I really don't think there are any commercially released games that fit the bill.

I dont know, a number of Indie studios could probably qualify.
KSP 1 was, at least at first, and Stardew Valley was made entirely by one guy
I don't think the whole "free labour" part of FOSS fits the "fair wage" requirement though :')
This isn't really news anymore, and it's not exclusive to Microsoft studios. Many games come to mind, notably GTA/RDR off the top of my head (outside the obvious Bethesda titles, since everyone's more focused on them right now). GTA is also extremely close to the ten year mark between titles; RDR2 was eight years. These big, open world games have constantly been getting larger and taking more time to make for ages now.
Honestly as long as the quality remains as high as it is for the Rockstar titles I am okay with it.
They get larger, have more features, content and better graphics but they don't seem to be getting any more fun to actually play (to me anyway but that could be 'old' setting in)
I think that's subjective. While I do agree with you to some extent I think that there are people out there that love these games and they play them for a long long time. Perhaps they are catering to a different crowd.
True very subjective
I don't care as long as the pipeline has enough different good games that I get one per year. I can wait years between games in a franchise as long as there's something else to play in the interim.
So they will crunch developers more, pay them less and/or replace some of them with AI crap. That's why i only play indie gamesor put on my skull and crossbones patterned hat
I just want to know why everything has to be open world today. It seems like developers are just constantly increasing scope and making games almost too big now.
I can assure you it's not the developers changing the scope...
Easier level design. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of open world games just had their landscape generated and then slightly tweaked afterwards.