Alaric Snell-PymJun 11, 2023
Karl T.

This one is for my Black and brown readers. Fellow white folks, please sit this one out, but feel free to boost for a bigger sample size.

When you see "Our organization has a commitment to diversity and inclusion" in a set of non-profit corporate policies, what is your first thought?

"These people might be half-decent to work with."
11.6%
"Yeah, you're out to make a buck off our backs."
18.1%
"How many of your leaders actually look like me?"
52.1%
Other; please comment below.
18.1%
Poll ended at .
Jun 10, 2023 at 4:55pmYuito
Show threadRichard PennerJun 10, 2023
@dubious_dragon "Don't tell me; show me!"
Show threadPratik PatelJun 10, 2023
@dubious_dragon Policies without implemtation details won't mean much. I'm usually dubious until I see staff diversity numbers.
Show threadIndigo ♿ she/herJun 10, 2023
@dubious_dragon nice to see the talk, let's see if you walk the walk.
Show threadAmadi LovelaceJun 10, 2023
@dubious_dragon my first thought is if you truly have that commitment you don’t need to tell me. If you have to put that into words, especially on a policy document, you’re lying.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEJun 11, 2023
@amaditalks @dubious_dragon Isn't it just routine for everyone to say that these days? Whether it means anything or not? So, without further information there's nothing you can read into it one way or another?
Show threadAmadi LovelaceJun 11, 2023
@TimWardCam @dubious_dragon not in my experience but I’ll grant that it’s limited like anyone else’s.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEJun 11, 2023

@amaditalks @dubious_dragon I think it's a bit like employers saying that one of their values is "we're all nice to each other".

Which is why it was a pleasant surprise to find at my current employer that this is taken seriously.

Show threadKarl T.Jun 11, 2023
@TimWardCam @amaditalks Tim, I'm curious about what part of "Fellow white people, please sit this one out" was unclear to you?
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon @amaditalks I obeyed it - I didn't vote.
Show threadLoopyChewJun 10, 2023
@dubious_dragon @Skyliting How about AAPI? (Forgetting the actual acronym but I think you get the idea.)
Show threadIndigo ♿ she/herJun 10, 2023
@loopychew @dubious_dragon I do now.
Show threaddabnotuJun 10, 2023

@dubious_dragon

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/20/the-invention-of-whiteness-long-history-dangerous-idea

The invention of whiteness: the long history of a dangerous idea

The long read: Before the 17th century, people did not think of themselves as belonging to something called the white race. But once the idea was invented, it quickly began to reshape the modern world

The Guardian
Show threadLaura J MixonJun 12, 2023
@dabnotu @dubious_dragon Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.
Show threadValerie Sonh Jun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon I'm Brown (from Asia) but no one will hire me because I don't have reliable transportation, am in poor health, and am now 50 yrs. old. An office full of young, suburban, able-bodied, car-owning people is not diverse regardless of their race.
Show threadSeanJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon I often wonder if I count or not. I'll always remember being in a room full of white people during a diversity and inclusion presentation where they emphasized diverse ethnic backgrounds to mean including those who are black, hispanic, or "other"
Show threadKarl T.Jun 11, 2023
@squizzleflip That's a shitty thing to do to another human being, especially when there are variations between our inner senses of our own identity and how we are "pigeonholed" by society. I am very sorry that happened to you.
Show threadSeanJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon I appreciate the kind words! Yeah, it was less than ideal, but kind of par for the course for the diversity and inclusion I usually see. If an org wants to show commitment, I want to see the metrics and initiatives. Otherwise it's just a talking point
Show threadjrm4Jun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon

Literally meaningless in any direction. Exactly not bad or good. Pretty much identical to when someone tells me they are Christian

Show threadProbably PaulJun 11, 2023
@jrm4
@dubious_dragon I've been fortunate enough to work for organisations that took their equality and diversity policies seriously, and had senior management teams that reflected that. But here in the UK, you typically have to work in the public or charity sectors to see that happening. Elsewhere it is, as you say, mostly just meaningless words.

Lip service, with only occasional tokenistic hiring.
Show threadVaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈Jun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon It makes me go and look and see whether they're attempting to actually embody those values. And whether it feels like they're just words being parroted or whether they actually have invested into trying to make them a value they enact into practice.
Show threadErikJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon should have added 5: I'm as white as printer paper; show results
Show threadIn Search of a Better WorldJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon "Our lawyers and PR people told us to say this meaningless phrase".
Show threadDave KershawJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon you should really specify what country you mean. In Northern Ireland people would assume this policy is to do with balancing protestants and Catholics .
Show threadJennifer KonikowskiJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon honestly think it’s all for show. Even companies that have diverse leadership can be a nightmare for underrepresented subordinates. I deeply care about DEI but am tired of people in power telling me they care, then dismissing issues.
Show threadJoe GreenJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon @queenslight The first thing I think of is how many of your employees look like me
Show threadsettimaJun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon That statement is often accompanied by a meaningless stock photo of young, healthy, happily smiling, stereotypical multiethnic “employees” and my thought is

ah, you've got money for a Shutterstock pro account. Let me check the Meet the Team link…

ah yes…

Show threadHawluchaJun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon "Oh just how committed are you? *checks on their site any public list of leaders/notable people*

*also looks their own images around their site of supposedly their employees to count how many non-white folk might actually work there*

Home page is also noted to check for possible diversity-washing like what Nazi-friendly domain registrar Epik did with a Black woman in front and focus.

Now a new thought thinking about that phrase is "How long has the commitment even been there before what seems like lots of orgs started saying that they have that commitment?", because orgs saying that seems like something recent and in line with recent talks around DEI. Pretty much to say "Hey! We're good people!" when they want it to benefit them and not the people that work for them.

Show threadJyoti MishraJun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon

I view it as boilerplate bullshit.

Show threadajJun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon

"Nice, the admin department did an R&D off of some other organization's hiring page."
slash /
"Yep, that's the thing people say."

Show threadxananaxJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon I think all the first 3 tbh. I think they're almost certainly full of shit, _yet_ almost certainly better than the companies that don't have that announced policy.
Show threadAfterpantsJun 11, 2023
@dubious_dragon
As requested...😆😆
Show threadAlexander ShendiJun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon

🥱😴

Show threadBruber CloudSecOps Jun 11, 2023

@dubious_dragon I didn't vote but I'm a white double minority who can pass so I'm going to comment.

My employer's DEIA program is pretty good, but it focuses mostly on the visible diversity eg PoC, LGBTQ+. They're moving toward things like invisible disabilities (mental health, neuro divergence) but it's a work in progress. IMHO, though, I'm still on an island as a member of the Jewish faith and a diabetic.

Show threadRichardJun 12, 2023
@dubious_dragon They're still going to plan company meetings on Jewish holidays
Show threadSumana HarihareswaraJun 12, 2023
@dubious_dragon My first thought is "let's see what concrete actions they've already taken."
Show threadPalJun 12, 2023
@dubious_dragon Talk is cheap. Renting a boat is cheap PR too. I wonder how many companies can show what the actual impact is of their policies. I’d actually want to see evidence that they, through their hiring policies, are fostering that kind of inclusive environment and prove what inclusion means to those that have been discriminated. Is it safe to work there? Is it fun to work there? Are your products getting better because you’re taking an inclusive approach? I could go on..
Show threadEspinadaJun 12, 2023
@dubious_dragon
More bullshit. They’ll hire you because it goes on record. They’ll fire you a week later because they don’t keep records on who they fire.
All show like pride.
Show threadlegraLeGraJun 12, 2023

@dubious_dragon @nothingtoseehere

Not voting as per your request…

And sure, I know more about academic/gov’t things… but
unfunded DEI mandates are… Equi-theater.

Reminds me of cotton candy— big and sweet looking, but ultimately just a tiny hint of flavor, spun up to outsized volume given its substance.

Show threadBrother SoulJun 14, 2023

@dubious_dragon I'm of the 20% & the 58% for sure!!

Good poll

brother