Jonathan Dickinson
amosRust: The wrong people are resigning
https://gist.github.com/fasterthanlime/42da9378768aebef662dd26dddf04849
Now feels like a great time for a social media break, see y’all in a little while.
I’ll say this here and not on bird site: I wish I could’ve done more, as I’m sure others have before.
I was in a position of knowing some things yet not being able to do anything about it. It was untenable. I think the people responsible should name themselves, or be named by folks they work with directly.
I have reason to believe things will improve, but if they don’t, I will move on and not look back.
Nathan "Lobotomized Ferret"I just wanted to say thank you for finally speaking out about this.
I've been watching a lot of sketchy things going on in rust leadership second hand through various connections in the community, including moderating a secluded space where we've occasionally had those negatively affected by such decisions pop in, and it's been incredibly frustrating just _knowing_ that something is wrong, but having neither the platform nor the hard evidence to really do anything about it, and quite honestly, its sapped all the will to use rust in personal projects out of me.
Your speaking out on the subject finally gives me a little bit of cautious optimism about the situation.
just adrienne@thatonelutenist @fasterthanlime Until someone NAMES FUCKING NAMES there is absolutely no accountability, nor any reason to trust the Rust Project leadership.
Agreed, I'd name names if I had them, but if I had enough information to have names, I would have been screaming them from the rooftops for ages by now.
I lost any shred of trust I had in rust leadership years ago now, and it is beyond frustrating and disappointing that it's taken this long for someone on the inside to go into even the little amount of detail that we got this round.
As far as I'm concerned, even once names get named, the remaining members of leadership still have a lot to reckon for before I'd consider them trustworthy, and I'm honestly not sure if I'd be satisfied by anything short of a complete turnover of leadership
The "just don't talk about it, we don't know enough yet" attitude that's made its nest in the rust community and the pushback that the more critical elements of the community have received are honestly such incredible vehicles for perpetuating the toxicity
Pyrex, nightsworn alchemist
esmevane, sorry@fasterthanlime hey dude! Breaks are a fantastic thing. I need to take more. Enjoy yours! Hope it’s super chill
Lambda@fasterthanlime
thanks for the insight and much-needed optimism (limited as it may be).
n.b.: english grammar is complicated, how should the quantifiers in "all the good people who could’ve left haven’t yet" be interpreted?
moved to @@fasterthanlime thank you for writing this. how many times do we have to be in the in group to learn that oh yea there are good people with good intentions but shit for execution.
Jon (now at neuromatch.social)Agreed, thank you for writing this
@fasterthanlime -- and thank you @amanjeev for your post at https://mstdn.ca/@amanjeev/110442227364621760 , so important to say that explicitly!
@fasterthanlime -- and thank you @amanjeev for your post at https://mstdn.ca/@amanjeev/110442227364621760 , so important to say that explicitly!
amanjeev | امنجیو | ਅਮਨਜੀਵ (@[email protected])
no one has thus far said anything about this aspect so i will. if my memory serves right, this would have been the first keynote ever by a person of color. the sheer disrespect of how this was done is worse than what you think. does rust project really understand how this actually looks like? from where i see, the apology, if it ever comes out, has to feel real and people have to own this fiasco with reasons. https://pony.social/@thephd/110437234440995075
More clarity on what you mean by "out group"?
> Part of me is very disappointed at ThePrimeagen
Now that you mention it, big oof, very true. I couldn't put my finger on why I lost interest in watching, I guess this is it.
As for crablang, I do feel as though it serves a purpose in these tumultuous times. Put simply: it keeps rustlang honest (or at least should have, these events bring that into question).
@jcdickinson anyone who isn’t part of any of these private chats, either semi official ones (mostly on Discord), official ones (mostly on Zulip, or in-person / one-to-one), is part of the out group. I believe those private spaces have NOT worked out, to say the least.
Jalil@fasterthanlime I'm bookmarking this because GitHub decided to go down :c
vvm@fasterthanlime thank you, this is an excellent statement
Alice I Cecile@fasterthanlime Respect for this decision. Insider information is uncomfortable to bear, especially without the formal power to actually take action.
@alice_i_cecile precisely. It’s torture.
JonasKsPrimeagen is a personality who live streams and reacts to blogs and videos. He did that with these articles too - obviously.
I watch far from all his content, but for me it don’t seem like there’s been more than 2- videos on his channel. One released today, 3 minutes long.
I wonder what you want to achieve by calling him out, though. Maybe I’m missing something.
@fasterthanlime it seems like they’ve squared up on Twitter. Still, I don’t really think it was the right way to go about it - calling someone out months later, without seeing if he still would have the same impression, and to call him out publicly instead of privately first.
Björkus "No time_t to Die" Dorkus@fasterthanlime So, it's deeply inadvisable for me to still be reading and talking, especially halfway into PJs and sliding into bed, but I will have to say this. I mean this with as much love in my heart as I can possibly communicate to you, even though I am nowhere near the level of friendship as many others you know, including those in that in-group chat you just left.
Just because they had good intentions does not mean they should not face direct accountability.
Leaning heavily into "If they were well-intentioned, I cannot hold them accountable, and it's very regrettable" is not even close to how you respect and uphold someone to be a better human being. It is not how you make sure your friends hold up properly. It is eerily exactly how much of my abusive childhood went, with me never naming names and running cover for the people who repeatedly screwed up, to a point where they became irredeemable and unhelpable.
If the Rust Project as an organization has people who need to resign, then their names should be clearly written out and their behavior called to account. If you have some expectation that the Rust Project will do it, fine. But if they don't, I want you to understand that this post did not help them get there.
@thephd I understand where you’re coming from. I can’t make this happen any faster without causing splash damage to a lot of very good and very patient people involved. To be honest this post is more about preserving my mental health than anything else. I’m sorry it can’t be more than that.
soc@thephd @fasterthanlime This.
I'm so so so tired of Rust leadership ducking away and always coming up with well-formulated excuses why they cannot do the thing that – obvious to everyone else – needs to be done.
In this case: naming names and handing out lifetime bans.
It's incredibly disrespectful to everyone outside their inner circle. People should have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to interact with those "rogue individuals".
(1) Enno T. Boland@fasterthanlime Thanks for your writing! - I think most of the people involved in OpenSource know similiar stories from their projects. I pretty much am with you on all statements and I am not part of rust community internals, but I have a question...
@fasterthanlime In which way was the crablang fork a waste of time?
In open source - at least in my opinion - there's no way to steer a workload. You can give incentives by being a nice community - whatever that means to an individual. But saying "instead of X, you should've done Y" is a bossy move and actually is malicious.