Tony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023

At first glance, if it holds, it does appear to capture how a mature, shrewd President who's been to the rodeo more than once mostly held his own against a screaming drooling mob fumbling around with open cans of gasoline and cigarette lighters.

Debt ceiling deal reached in principle by Biden and McCarthy to avoid default:
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/27/1177688226/debt-ceiling-deal-biden-mccarthy-latest

Show threadStoney Takes
@TonyStark Tony, two questions: could the dems have raised the debt ceiling back in January without this showdown? Can the debt ceiling be raised by executive order and thus avoided the cuts that were insisted upon? Thanks!
May 28, 2023 at 5:25pmWeb
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023
@Stoneycase No and no.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023
@TonyStark Thanks I saw a quote but couldn’t figure out how to find an article.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023

@TonyStark Think this was the source that planted the seed. “Untested legal theory”

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/could-biden-avert-debt-default-by-using-14th-amendment-2023-05-02/

Could Biden use the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling?

President Joe Biden on Sunday said he believes he has the legal right to invoke the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to raise the federal government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling but does not have the time to do so.

Reuters
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023
@Stoneycase Yeah- unfortunately SCOTUS. No point sending it there which is where it would end up and enduring the interim world instability.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023
@TonyStark Thanks for that. Seems like we will be adding “unfortunately SCOTUS” as a label going forward to all things progress, logic and / or equality that don’t happen.
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023
@Stoneycase Accurate and yet another reason that elections matter and while we on the progressive end can certainly afford discussion, we cannot afford unnecessary division.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023
@TonyStark Anything practical that can be done about SCOTUS? What does it take to remove Thomas over his dealings with Crow? Are we stuck with this group until they die? My hope in democracy used to lie with SCOTUS being the adults in the room. That’s out the window
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023

@Stoneycase He won’t be removed. We as a country continue to fail to give Democrats enough of a control over Congress to make that happen. And that’s outside of the fact that the Senate is set up poorly to start with.

We had a chance to have a different SCOTUS and people blew it. Those same people want purple unicorns to fly in and fix their problems now. Trump got 3 SCOTUS picks. Probably won’t be fixed in my lifetime unless Democrats get a 2/3 Senate majority.

Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023
@TonyStark I’m struggling with the fact California has two senators. Same as South Dakota. And one is well past her retirement age. It’s frustrating, and as you state, not set up well at all. The idea of expanding SCOTUS kinda frightens me even more. What happens if we expand then end up with more of the Trump federalist society appointments?! 😩
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023

@Stoneycase It would have been far better and easier to have avoided this whole situation to begin with and the sooner everyone who isn’t a fan of the oncoming GOP fascism admits that, the better off we’re all going to be.

If we dare to do that, we’d need to be absolutely sure that a Democratic majority has the Senate and I see no reason to believe a lot of people even understand the implications. At least not on social media.

Show threadStoney TakesMay 28, 2023
@TonyStark I ponder moving from California to a purple state. My vote feels a little trapped / useless here. I’ve never voted for a republican on any level. California, the state, is a mess. Federally, We only have one active senator.
Show threadGrassroots JoeMay 29, 2023
@TonyStark @Stoneycase
While it's bad, it isn't quite that bad. We "only" need 51 Senators willing to kill or at least bypass the filibuster to get truly important stuff done:
- #FreedomToVote Act
- Make DC a state (2 more D Senators)
- Expand the Courts (I prefer Elie Mystal's proposal to turn SCOTUS into a bigger version of an appellate court with 25 members & shifting panel of 9 to hear more cases)
- Codify Roe
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 29, 2023

@joeinwynnewood @Stoneycase Thanks, Joe. Of course you’re correct. The wacky uninformed replies I get on Mastodon (and you get them, too) aren’t a reflection of reality, fortunately.

People need to understand the filibuster is a real problem and has blocked progress for decades. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

Show threadGrassroots JoeMay 29, 2023

@TonyStark @Stoneycase
YW.
Imagine what it would be like if we were still on Twitter! 😏

I am a bit surprised at the persistent lack of knowledge on a lot of this stuff. Of course I'm happy to inform folks, but it certainly can get a bit tedious.

For the current topic of uninformed consternation, Kos has done an admirable job of assessing the situation - https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/28/2171894/-Furious-Freedom-Caucus-vows-to-scuttle-debt-deal.
(Sure wish we could get him posting here...)

Furious Freedom Caucus vows to scuttle debt deal

UPDATE: Sunday, May 28, 2023 · 5:28:39 PM +00:00 · kos No one has seen the fine print, but there is real potential that this deal ends up being far better than the preliminary reports suggest. UPDATE: Sunday, May 28, 2023 · 4:46:44 PM +00:00 · kos Not...

Daily Kos
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 28, 2023
@Stoneycase Meanwhile, red rose wackos are in my mentions every day spreading Putin talking points. Won’t be fixed until people wake up.
Show threadMike J👹🐀 🤘🏻May 29, 2023
@TonyStark @Stoneycase At least people got to feel good about themselves for not voting for Hillary.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@mikej @TonyStark If we could just abolish the electoral college and go to popular vote….
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 29, 2023
@mikej @Stoneycase It’s those people who still refuse to admit they were wrong that are a real problem. They should be smarter and aren’t. MAGA heads are just stupid and we can’t expect anything better. Ever.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@TonyStark @mikej Close friend has a MAGA family. His brother finally removed his Trump stickers from his truck. Parents are still all in. They live in California. I shudder to think what some communities around the country feel like. My family has all passed away or lean strong democrat. Haven’t had any uncomfortable interactions with family. Truly blessed for that.
Show threadMike BabyakMay 29, 2023
@Stoneycase @TonyStark @mikej Neighbor on our little rural circle has at the end of his drive a mannequin w DJT mask, army fatigues, holding a plastic AR. Signs hanging around it say Copperhead RD, Buck Fiden, a confed flag saying “it ain’t over.” Used to display a rubber Obama head on a pike at DJT’s knees. Neighborhood had him remove that. He was surprised anyone found it offensive. He open-carries as he walks around the neighborhood. When they’re in deep, they’re in deep.
Show threadMike J👹🐀 🤘🏻May 29, 2023
@mikebabyak @Stoneycase @TonyStark I expect those people to be awful. What I can't stand is the people who want to tell you how terrible liberals are because they aren't leftists who wouldn't vote for an impure liberal.
Show threadMike J👹🐀 🤘🏻May 29, 2023
@mikebabyak @Stoneycase @TonyStark And don't get me wrong. If you weren't on twitter, 99% of the people who favored other candidates happily voted for the less evil candidate because they were less evil. If you were extremely online though, you heard a lot from the small percentage that demanded purity.
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 29, 2023

@mikebabyak @Stoneycase @mikej I realize I post on social media. I just worked a primary on my state that was very successful for Democrats, particularly progressive ones- good progressive ones who understand real results and coalition building.

I talked to about 800 voters over the months. Very few on Twitter. None on Mastodon and only a couple had even heard of it. People who spend too much time on it aren’t reflecting what people really think.

Show threadBruce MirkenMay 29, 2023
@mikej @mikebabyak @Stoneycase @TonyStark I had a good friend who essentially called me a traitor to the left because I voted for Hillary in the general rather than Jill Stein. He was a formerly reasonable person who went so far off the rails I had to block him on Twitter.
Show threadAllyson Williams ✅May 29, 2023
@BruceMirken @mikej @mikebabyak @Stoneycase @TonyStark I will not forgive the Steiners for allowing Trump.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@Allyson @BruceMirken @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark Not a Steiner, but also don’t understand this statement. Did she pull that many votes in the Midwest? I thought only California voted Green. And Ca went Biden in 2016. Is there a source article showing she helped flip swing states in 2016?
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@Allyson @BruceMirken @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark Trump won 30 states, and 304 to 227 electoral votes. That was because of Jill Stein? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/15/the-counties-that-flipped-parties-to-swing-the-2016-election/
The counties that flipped parties to swing the 2016 election

More than 80 counties voted Bush-Obama-Obama-Trump since 2004.

The Washington Post
Show threadAllyson Williams ✅May 29, 2023
@Stoneycase @BruceMirken @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark No. But many Steiners sat out the election.
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 29, 2023
@mikebabyak @Stoneycase @Allyson @mikej @BruceMirken At the very least, a lot of social media accounts and followers of so called third options tried very hard to get people to opt out of voting. There aren’t hard numbers because that’s impossible to quantify but it certainly seemed organized to suppress the vote.
Show threadAllyson Williams ✅May 29, 2023
@TonyStark @mikebabyak @Stoneycase @mikej @BruceMirken And the Russians messed in it.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@Allyson @TonyStark @mikebabyak @mikej @BruceMirken Yes they did. As they do. Still not pinning anything on greens or Bernie bros. People voted for Trump in spite of the deleterious red flags, his open misogyny, his credible accusations of sexual assault. His multiple bankruptcies and morally bankrupt nature. Ima blame the folks that voted for him. Blaming Green Party voters let’s his supporters off the hook.
Show threadTony, Pretty MuchMay 29, 2023
@mikej @Stoneycase @BruceMirken @mikebabyak @Allyson This discussion has been going on for 7 years. Nobody will ever come to a solid conclusion on it. I really don’t think it’s worth going on and on about except to acknowledge that any Democrat would have been better than Trump and still will be. Tapping out.
Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@TonyStark @mikebabyak @Allyson @mikej @BruceMirken Gotcha. I prefer to blame the folks that voted for Trump. The wyt women in the Midwest. I’d say that demographic hurt us a lot more than “steiners”. Also, were there really that many folks that sat out because of Bernie or Stein? IDK but I’m still blaming the trump voters 10000%
Show threadAllyson Williams ✅May 29, 2023
@Stoneycase @BruceMirken @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark And Bernie Bros
Show threadAllen B. SkyeMay 29, 2023

@mikej @mikebabyak @Stoneycase @TonyStark I really liked Liz Warren in ‘20. I even voted for her in the CA primary even though it was obvious that Biden was going to be the candidate. Even though Biden wasn’t my first choice, there was no way in hell that I was voting for anyone else.

His policies have been way more progressive than I was expecting. I will gladly vote for him again.

Show threadStoney TakesMay 29, 2023
@raddude12 @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark Agree with you, also preferred Warren in the primary. I wish California would offer the nation more than Feinstein.
Show threadAllen B. SkyeMay 29, 2023
@Stoneycase @mikej @mikebabyak @TonyStark I wish Feinstein would negotiate a deal with Newsome that if she resigns, her appointed successor would need to retain her staff.