Seeking good examples of media where there is a team of people who are the protagonist and amongst whom there is NOT a 'chosen one' or 'team leader' type. (IE, not Buffy -- even though that's a great series.)
I suppose I should look back into Chinese theater and the changes made under the CCCP in the 20th century. Not sure it's going to be what I'm looking for, though.
Boost if you would like to help give this question wider spread. π€
I'm not trying to find something that denies temporarily necessary hierarchies, but something that tries to describe how to work together and how to adapt to circumstance.
Something that presumes egalitarian principles are valid - probably cannot be fantasy but might be sci-fi.
(Fantasy is generally where narrative psychology informs the world, where sci-fi is focused on sociology more generally.)
Never cared for it. I think it has a bit of a 'chosen one' vibe... but I have to admit I didn't read it nor see the movies. Something about it has always turned me off. Open to counter-arguments, of course.
(I'm more of a low-fantasy type -- Steven Brust, Christopher Stasheff -- stuff that often turns out to really be sci-fi in the end.)
Also, I'm meaning to imply a subtext that counters 'great man' ideology within the context of the story -- where the working together is a big part of the theme.
Ha! I totally misinterpreted your meaning. π€
I used to watch it a bit. Like Alias I remember feeling that the first season drew me in but later seasons changed focus
Also, I'm noticing that I think I should qualify a group or team as not being family. At least not for the large majority of members
Family seems to me to be qualitatively different somehow - it's an old, generally life-long, relationship. The story will tend to focus on that history. It will fall into a prescribed pattern.
Good suggestion, however. Haven't I heard something about a reboot?
@swordplay yeah! I haven't watched it because I can't handle yet another streaming service, you know?
I know what you mean about family and the lifelong relationships, the baggage there is a rich vein for a writer to explore.
On the other end of the spectrum might be horror? Strangers unexpectedly trapped together? Like Cube jumps to mind, but it's been a while since I've seen it. I don't _think_ there is a main protagonist?
I stream nothing, nothing! π
Ah, horror. Absolutely not my bag.
But maybe there is something in the structure of how a horror story is told that could be useful. Thanks for the idea!
Capitalism is horror, after all... I'm going to sit with this for a bit.
Final girl trope; how does it fit...? Processing...
Good insight! π
@swordplay #Claude:
Here are some examples of media with ensemble protagonists who are not "chosen ones" or obvious leaders:
β’ The TV show Firefly - The crew of the ship Serenity work as a team, with no single main protagonist or leader. Captain Mal Reynolds is the captain, but he considers everyone on the crew equally important.
β’ The movie Ocean's Eleven - A heist team made up of equally important protagonists who work collaboratively to pull off a big casino robbery. No one member is the central focus or leader.
β’ The movie The Dollars Trilogy (A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) - Clint Eastwood's "Man with No Name" teams up with other bounty hunters and outlaws, operating more as an ensemble of equals than a leader.
β’ The Lord of the Rings books - The book versions portray Frodo's "Fellowship" as a true fellowship, with characters like Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, etc. all bringing important skills and perspectives as relative equals.
β’ The TV show Leverage - A crew of thieves and hackers who work together as equals to "help those who can't help themselves." No single protagonist dominates the group.
Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
#Sage:
There are several examples of media where there is a team of people who are the protagonist and amongst whom there is not a clear "chosen one" or "team leader" type. Here are a few:
Ocean's Eleven (2001) - The heist movie features a diverse team of eleven individuals with various skills who work together to rob three Las Vegas casinos simultaneously. While Danny Ocean is the mastermind behind the plan, each member of the team is crucial to its success and has their own important role to play.
The Avengers (2012) - The superhero team-up movie brings together a group of superheroes including Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and the Hulk, as well as Black Widow and Hawkeye. While there are certainly characters who take on leadership roles at different points in the film, the team ultimately works together as equals to defeat the villain.
The A-Team (1983-1987) - The TV series follows a team of former Special Forces soldiers who are on the run from the military after being wrongly accused of a crime. Each member of the team has a different skillset and personality, and they work together to help people in need while also trying to clear their names.
The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) - The first film in the Lord of the Rings trilogy features a group of nine individuals who set out to destroy the One Ring, including Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Merry, and Pippin. While Frodo may be the ring-bearer and the one with the ultimate responsibility, each member of the Fellowship has their own important role to play in the journey and the ultimate success of the mission.
The Expendables (2010) - The action movie features a team of mercenaries, each with their own unique set of skills, who are hired to overthrow a dictator in a fictional Latin American country. While there are certainly characters who take on leadership roles at different points in the film, the team ultimately works together as equals to accomplish their mission.
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) - The superhero movie features a group of misfits including Star-Lord, Gamora, Drax, Rocket, and Groot, who come together to save the galaxy. While Star-Lord may be the de facto leader, each member of the team has their own important role to play in the mission and the ultimate success of the team.
I hope these examples are helpful!
#Perplexity:
After searching for examples of media where there is a team of people who are the protagonist and amongst whom there is NOT a 'chosen one' or 'team leader' type, I couldn't find any specific examples that match the criteria. However, I did find some relevant search results that might be helpful:
A Reddit thread discussing MMORPGs without the "Chosen One" trope1
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An article on Tor.com discussing the flaws of the "Chosen One" trope in fantasy media2
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A Writing Stack Exchange thread discussing how to avoid the "chosen hero" feeling in writing3
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TV Tropes pages on "The Chosen One" and "It Sucks to Be the Chosen One"4
5
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A Screen Rant article listing the 15 best "Chosen Ones" in movie and TV history6
.
While these search results don't provide specific examples of media that match the criteria, they do offer insights into the "Chosen One" trope and how it's used in various forms of media.
First, thank you for your thorough response! Could you explain the hashtag headers? Are these different people whose answers you are forwarding?
1) Firefly: I sorta agree, but I also sorta think the focus is on Mal. The central thesis of the show, faith, becomes clearest in Serenity and it is Mal's epiphany that the story hinges on.
There are definite moments in the series where Mal explicitly and aggressively decides how things are going to be done in spite of objections from the others. (He's shown to be wrong from time-to-time, but that's a different question.)
It is definitely an ensemble cast and the stories we might have seen could possibly have changed this, but it didn't have time.
2) Ocean's 11) Again, I think the focus is on Danny Ocean. The emotional payoff is when Danny gets his ex-wife to leave the villain. The team is fantastic, though, each is distinct and seems real. The movie is great.
<continued>
3) Dollars movies: I haven't watched them. But I believe their "team" is fairly fragile, no? Don't they betray each other periodically? Perhaps I will watch them. Westerns are largely about revenge, though, which trope I am really tired of.
4) LOTR: Perhaps this one is in the ballpark. I've always found it off-putting, though, and have never read it nor watched the movies.
5) Leverage: I love Leverage. The first series definitely has a leader, though, and it's his rage that drives the team. Leverage: Redemption, without that character, does more closely approach the ideal I've expressed in my question. The writing and bite isn't quite there, though. (This may be pandemic related, though. And the cast has aged, too. Different lead writers, younger, that don't quite seem to get the depths of the depravity that they could condemn. It's less serious.)
<continued>
6) The Avengers: maybe. I think it's about acceptance, and doing your part for sure. Superheroes are really a hard space to talk about this idea in, as it's largely people committing terrible crimes without any repercussions. The fantasy tropes really work against any real commentary on society except the general promotion of libertarian idiocy. I enjoy the Marvel films, generally, but they're pretty weak beyond the soap opera stuff.
7) The A-Team: I've not seen the A-Team since I was a child. It's old-school episodic adventure. Handsome Guy, Tough Guy, Crazy Guy and Genius Leader. Definitely a team, definitely on the side of "good". Not much emotional development. Not much social commentary. While it may be technically in-bounds, I question whether it's questioning or subverting authority or social structure.
<continued>
8) The Expendables: Haven't seen it. I'll check it out.
9) Guardians of the Galaxy: Yes and No. I think having StarLord be the child of a god and (the first two movies at least) be about his maturation is definitely forefronting him. It's really about family or the lack of family, which is a sort-of subset of "team" but which just feels categorically different from what I think I'm asking about. Still, StarLord's leadership is crap generally, which is at least a subversion.
10) Thank you for all the hints for further reading about Chosen One tropes!
Thank you, too, for the seriousness and thoroughness with which you replied. π
I have never used a neural network. I'll take a look, thanks!
@swordplay Personally, I appreciate The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen back in the day, despite the negative reviews.
And, of course, The Boys series π
Never saw that movie. I've a soft spot for 19th/early 20th adventure/mystery stuff. Maybe I'll take a look.
The Boys I like very much. But it is really focused on Butcher. The central thesis on power is fantastic and I think they're doing a fantastic job of subversion -- so good that a lot of fascist fanboys are having "wait a minute, Homelander is the *bad guy*" moments. And maybe it is subverting the "chosen one" trope a bit - by using it invertedly. Definitely has the "team leader" trope though.
On the other hand, the third season did have Butcher realize some shit. I'm gonna think about this some more.
Overall though, I think I'm trying to find some examples to inspire me on how to create a more egalitarian style of storytelling that subverts American societal expectations.
So far, how Leverage and The Boys are evolving seem like the best examples to me.
I still probably have to go look at CCCP operas though. π
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