Mastodawn

Mouthy Gurl May 12, 2023

Brosephine Wires

Hey there Mastodonians,

For personal family reasons I'd rather not get into, I need help digging up dirt on three "buy gold/silver" companies.

They are 100% rightwing crazies. That isn't the issue. I am looking for dirt: scams, fraud, criminal histories, angry customers-- whatever you can dig up.

They are:
- ITM Trading (owner: Craig Griffin)
- GoldCo (Hannity affiliation)
- KirkElliottPhd dot com

I'm most concerned about Elliott "phd" because he claims 27 yrs experience, yet seems to have no real past beyond a certain point. He has SEO'd the fuck out of search engines. I think he might have changed his name at some point. Also, this Elliott is the one that a certain elderly, poor person is most eager to hand over all of her money to... SOON. Like, he has them hooked and excited and ancy. They can hardly wait to throw their money away.

PLEASE boost. I'm really racing the clock on this one.

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I reached my breaking point with stress earlier, so I’m going to bookmark and read all your comments a bit later. Keep boosting 🆙👆⬆️ and sharing any info you know! 🙏

Brosephine Wires May 13, 2023

Found a secondary website for Kirk Elliott, probably meant just for the Qs to lead to the normie site and it is SOMETHING 😳🤯😨

https://pmpinfluencer.com/

PATRIOT MONETIZATION PROGRAM – EMPOWERING PATRIOT INFLUENCERS

BitcoDavid #ResistTrump May 11, 2023

I boosted. I can't help more than that, unfortunately, but I appreciate your predicament.

@JoParkerBear
Yes, I remember Ron Paul's commercials.

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

Ron Paul advertised for Kirk Elliott??

Chestbursty May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear you probably saw this but if not, from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/w1htoz/scam/

Scam?

My Qmom is talking about buying a bunch of silver from some guy called Dr. Kirk Elliott. I see that he is super right wing, but is he...

reddit

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

@unclebuckflapjack I did— thanks ❤️

Jennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊May 11, 2023

Boosted, that's about the most I can do here...

Anecdotally, a moment which will always stick in my head was when a right-wing AM radio show my late father was listening to played a commercial advocating that their customers invest in precious metals because the Dollar Is Failing -- and then, immediately after, a commercial advocating that a customer should sell their precious metals (jewelry, mostly) for cold hard cash.

The juxtaposition was incredibly striking.

wb x64 May 12, 2023

@theogrin @JoParkerBear which makes tons of sense if you don't know about commodity investment and you think "oh how nice a vibrant market for gold trading" -- fact is they don't need to advertise if their side of the business is good, people will go find them to buy or sell. They advertise when they really need to get something valuable from you.

"We buy gold" signs dot the roadside every day of the year but that costs $0, so why is it "hot" to buy or sell, eh?

Jennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊May 12, 2023

@wilbr @JoParkerBear
Commodity traders advertising on AM radio have always had that 'Earnest Joe's Used Automobiles' feel to them. They may be legitimate inasfar as they do buy and sell resources, but there's roughly zero chance that they're not preying upon the needy and the credulous, whether or not business is doing well for them.

I was bemused by the conflicting rationales on display: they have no trouble introducing two notions which can't exist at once, so long as it causes fear.

kctipton May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear Yelp review: https://www.yelp.com/biz/itm-trading-phoenix#reviews Some pretty bad pricing of their gold.

ITM Trading - Phoenix, AZ

Yelp

Brosephine Wires May 13, 2023

@kctipton thank you!

Nire Bryce May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear it probably won't sway the person you're trying to convince, but for other people trying to help:

most of the things under his 'publications' in the About Us section, are from a company he owns

https://opengovus.com/colorado-trade-name/20171836125

Elliott Global Group · 1200 Seventeenth Street, 10th Floor, Denver, CO 80202

Elliott Global Group (ID# 20171836125) is a business trade name registered with Colorado Department of State (CDOS). The effective date is November 6, 2017.

Ryan O'Neill May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear have you checked the whois history? I've not got an account so can't see, but likely the early registration has their name on https://research.domaintools.com/research/whois-history/search/?q=KIRKELLIOTPHD.COM

Kirkelliotphd.com - Whois History - DomainTools

CrazyMyra May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear Can't yet access the details, but interestingly there are at least 2 links to Elliott that Google is actively preventing me seeing (claiming "unsafe sites"). One involves a Colorado TV weather presenter (?)

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

@OutOnTheMoors 🤔

Peter Butler May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear I can’t help, but I know the feeling. 😢 I hope it works out

David Brent 📚May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear Boosted for reach, which is really all I'm in a position to do. Have you tried the BBB?

Good luck.

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

Yep. This guy Elliott who is big into Q and calls Steve Bannon his hero (has multiple photos with on Facebook) doesn’t have negative ratings there or anywhere online. Wow! He must be the best. Totally normal. In business 27 years. No record of him existing before like 2010. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear @dbsalk I did find a reddit thread about him: https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/w1htoz/scam/ Turns out his PhD is in theology. Super right-wing, christo-facist, I wouldn't touch the guy with a ten foot barge pole and you shouldn't let a loved one do it either if you can possibly help it.

Scam?

My Qmom is talking about buying a bunch of silver from some guy called Dr. Kirk Elliott. I see that he is super right wing, but is he...

reddit

wb x64 May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear I don't care if it's Amazon dot com, you never put your life savings on the line for anyone you can't punch. Like, purely on jurisdiction and ease of filling a lawsuit. Even if all three of these are absolutely unimpeachable, have common sense and buy a small amount you can afford to lose and inspect the merchandise first.

I've done transactions that are big enough to sink me for life before (home buying, etc) and you deal LOCALLY with people who you can SEE.

Brosephine Wires May 11, 2023

@wilbr tell that to my batshit crazy relative mkay. I’m 100% against the entire idea

wb x64 May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear have you considered a conservatorship

wb x64 May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear like the prevalence of fake emails coming in from the exact title company you're dealing with and the exact house you're buying giving you wiring instructions to send your $10,000 to Somalia is SO COMMON, EVEN WITH ESTABLISHED LOCAL BANKS, that you are warned about it ten times when buying a house these days. Have that level of caution with any large transaction. If you feel like there's pressure or urgency to spend money on something chances are you don't want it.

wb x64 May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear imagine someone with a legal fiduciary duty to act in your best interests, like a stockbroker or real estate agent. They're more likely to encourage you NOT to buy than pressure you to buy, if they're not scammers. Any investment in the world that needs to spend money advertising on TV probably isn't that great of an investment otherwise they'd make more money *investing those ad dollars in the thing, instead of convincing you to.* Look up pump & dump schemes.

wb x64 May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear valuable assets like gold and Bitcoin and even stocks are largely a zero sum game as an investment, they're a gamble: for every dollar of profit one person makes selling the gold they invested in, someone else loses because they bought high and sold low. (In the long run.) You want to invest in these things when everyone thinks they're junk, NOT when they're hot and everyone's talking about the massive winnings. That means you're the mark who can't do math.

wb x64 May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear *and* if you're an investor that means you need to know about beating the market: sure $100 of gold bought today might be $100 of gold sold a year from now ("it holds value!"), but inflation means you actually lost money and would've been better putting it in a money market savings account. So what are the chances you'll get more via gold than any other investment? How will you store and protect and trade it to realize that gain?

Lindasue May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear
I bought from them years ago. I was expected to keep the coins in the cases. I often wondered if they were genuine. I (only) spent $5000 and sold them back at a loss about 5 years later.

GoNancyGo May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear I am not a financial planner, just saying I understand how your relative might be feeling. It feels a little 1980s to me, I think gold became popular then too. Anyway I gave myself a bit of a break and bought some CDs, 1yr or less, paying 5% give or take. They are insured, and it gives me a minute to see where we are going. I don't care if it's investments,a car, or real estate, if you are getting pushed to hurry hurry, maybe take a breath.

AnneTheWriter May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear
Could you or someone you know possibly get financial power of attorney in this situation?

always impermanent May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear do you think it would land if you made the argument "if this company thinks that buying gold is a great way to make money, why are they selling it?"

Unfortunately there's not a transcript available, but here's a ~1h audio primer on how to dig up the sort of info you're looking for
https://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2022/6/13/carrie-spots-bad-experts-maxfuncon-edition

Carrie Spots Bad Experts: MaxFunCon Edition — Oh No Ross and Carrie

In this special live episode from MaxFunCon 2022, Carrie teaches a fact-checking class on spotting “bad experts.” Learn to confirm a university degree, look up a license, find a business filing, and access court documents. Note that these tips are centered around American experts; international meth

Oh No Ross and Carrie

RatherOddPursuits 🦆May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear
You mention that this person is elderly. You can reach out the Adult Protective Services department in their area. They would have experience with talking older people out of financial scams, and may have experience with this one since they are likely blanketing the area to get people to convince their friends to go in as well. They also might have resources to document the situation and have a head start when it does end up being fraud, if they can't convince the person otherwise

@JoParkerBear They really do look like the profile described here:
(I'm terrified of the "farms" of reviews that can be found on these types of companies).
https://www.cftc.gov/LearnAndProtect/AdvisoriesAndArticles/fraudadv_preciousmetals.html

Fraud Advisory: Precious Metals Fraud | CFTC

pocket full of hawthornes 💦May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear all i could dig up just now:
itm trading: https://www.bbb.org/us/az/phoenix/profile/coin-dealers/itm-trading-1126-35003211

goldco: https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/calabasas/profile/gold-buyers/goldco-1216-100109958
https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Goldco-EI_IE3351827.11,17.htm

kirkelliottphd: https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/w1htoz/scam/

ITM Trading | Better Business Bureau® Profile

BBB accredited since 8/14/2009. Coin Dealers in Phoenix, AZ. See BBB rating, reviews, complaints, request a quote & more.

LAUREN May 11, 2023

@JoParkerBear The easiest thing to do is to call a reputable bullion dealer to price out the products as comparison. The fact that this person has been persuaded is the most troubling angle. The industry is about 90% rip off and lies. I know because I work in it. I am more than happy to help but it will require a private conversation. I most likely know exactly what they are trying to sell and why. It's legal but a scam based on the product fees / premiums.

Merlie <3🏳️‍⚧️May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear 1) they are massive wall street companies
2) that's all you gotta know to hate them srry

Xavier May 12, 2023

On his website, Elliott lists four different organizations that he is associated with - Veribella, RDKL, Sovereign Advisors, and The Veribella Foundation. All of the links provided are dead.

If you do a search for Veribella online, you will find a website for a skin care company that lists Trina Fiala as the president. Her husband, David Fiala, is listed on several LLCs with Elliott.

Running out of characters - to be continued

Xavier May 12, 2023

Veribella, the company, is a makeup MLM - think Avon, and all that implies.

The Veribella Foundation is supposedly a charity set up to fight human trafficking. However, it doesn't do shit. Public Records show that it doesn't take in much money and almost all of the money goes to "Independent contractors."

What the Veribella Foundation (kind of makes you think of makeup, doesn't it?) is give the Veribella Company an excuse to talk about human trafficking.

to be continued

Xavier May 12, 2023

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/ln9hp1/how_trashy_is_it_to_use_something_like_literal/

This link goes to a Reddit post showing a screenshot from the Veribella Company. The screenshot is set up to imply that the Veribella Company uses the Veribella Foundation to fight human trafficking. But... there's no money going into the foundation?

Elliott proudly associates himself with these things, and they are clearly scams.

How trashy is it to use something like literal human trafficking to promote your shitty MLM?!

Posted in r/antiMLM by u/fuckyeahimtired • 207 points and 25 comments

reddit

Xavier May 12, 2023

Also, Trina Fiala's Facebook profile doesn't list a job or business. Is she the most humble CEO ever?

Xavier May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear Also, he has four family members listed as part of the team, but only explicitly says that one is his sister (and lets you figure out who his brother-in-law is through context clues.) AND NOBODY ON HIS TEAM HAS ANY KIND OF DEGREE IN FINANCES.

Also, he used to work for McAlvany Financial Group, which currently has a one star rating on yelp.

Xavier May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear As for the other two - their websites have disclaimers. A disclaimer is a denial of responsibility. A disclaimer is like preemptively pleading the fifth. (Not exactly, but in this case it essentially is.)

Xavier May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear I want to clarify that when I say “pleading the fifth,” I’m using it in the dumb people way, which is to say, as an admission of guilt/culpability stripped of all nuance.

Raven Onthill May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear if Elliott claims a doctorate, often the institution that granted it will list information about alumni online; if not, a call should turn something up.

Lightfighter May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear sounds like a job for a good for an #osint #infosec good Samaritan.

cowvin May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear @jsrailton might be able to help out?

Perun May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear Kirk Elliot PHD is the name of the founder of Sovereign Advisors. They invest in metals, they don't actually buy & sell the physical metals. They are only licensed in Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Missouri, New Mexico & Virginia. Given the lack of reviews, I smell an NDA in the paperwork.

Clare Harris 🍁May 12, 2023

Anyone with experience want to help out?

Sam May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear all the people in the “What People Are Saying” section are speakers or nonprofit leaders in an evangelical space.

Also, there are the two bad reviews on Google then a bunch of glowing ones. It’d be interesting if all the reviews are from states he can do business with. Other than that though, the lack of reviews is more concerning. Just very little proof.

𝗺𝗼𝗹𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿 May 12, 2023

You weren't kidding about the SEO fuckery. Lots of misdirection and fake pages to divert casual searches away from association with fraud.

Ok, so Kirk Matthew Elliot registers LLCs in CO, and sprinkles addresses of swanky lofts and condos in his filings, but those are just mail drops. His voting residence is a far more modest townhouse in Tampa, Florida. Specifically, 1211 E Cumberland Ave Unit 1101 Tampa, FL.

𝗺𝗼𝗹𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿 May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear
This is weird. There is another Kirk M Elliot in Scottsdale, AZ with what appears to be a whole separate life and some form of legal issues. They are nearly the same age, but I assumed they were different people. That is until I noticed they share a phone number from Elgin, IL.

Ok, time to exit this rabbit hole. I hope you get what you need, Bro.

verified_blobcat

@JoParkerBear On a practical basis, maybe take that person to a real coin shop or show them a well-regarded and legit dealer online.

Bullion items are well-understood and have paper thin margins, so if they're asking (for example) $3000 for a common 1-ounce bullion coin, just showing them "legit dealers are selling at 2200 or less all day" might help burst the bubble.

In the worst case, if they still insist on throwing money into gold, buying at a sane price would allow a large recovery.

Firehorseart Lives!May 12, 2023

This seems like a mental health issue as much as a scam problem.

See if you can get some advice from adult social care, mental health services and your relative's bank. They're unlikely to be the quick solution you're after but may be your best support for the future.

That said, unless your relative has a legal guardian appointed to help with their finances, it's hard to prevent

Gojira1000 May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear Kirk has really scraped the net. Point out to your relative that 1) their degree is in theology not economics, 2) it's from a mail-order online university and 3) they can buy real .999 fine silver far cheaper from a bonded dealer than from this middleman

Feoh May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear I know they're the gummint and thus not to be trusted, but please consider calling your local attorney general and/or the better business bureau. They have a ton of resources around helping to ensure elderly folks don't get fleeced by fuggheads like this.

mʕ•ﻌ•ʔm bitPickup May 12, 2023

how about a #journalism hashtag? ☝️

Louis Couture May 12, 2023

@JoParkerBear it's mastonauts

mybarkingdogs May 13, 2023

@JoParkerBear tagging @ProPublica @e_urq @TexasObserver @gbhnews

Billiam May 13, 2023

@JoParkerBear of it's a grift, it's attached to ring wingers, it's honestly astounding that any of them have any money left at all given how many vultures have been circling them since trump clearly demonstrated to the world how incredibly stupid they are.