benklaasenOK, I concede. #retrocomputing _is_ primarily about #nostalgia.
🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑@benklaasen Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.
@brouhaha
Well, you're right. Modern nostalgia just doesn't have the patina of the old sort. And it smells different too.
I'd been trying to make the case here awhile back that #retrocomputing has much to teach the #permacomputing community, who seem to reject the former precisely because it's nostalgia-based. But I can't even convince myself of my own argument anymore. https://mastodon.social/@benklaasen/110209467362913416
William D. Jones@benklaasen @brouhaha I wonder what @neauoire has to say about this (Devine is a permacomputing advocate who greatly appreciates the NES. The NES highly influenced their UXN project, which definitely fits under the permacomputing ethos).
Also, feel free to dispute my introduction :P.
Devine Lu Linvega@cr1901 @benklaasen @brouhaha I'm not sure that it has absolutely-nothing to teach people interested in permacomputing, but it shouldn't be the whole of their interest.
Retrocomputing is a changing thing too, today's computer will be someone's retrocomputing someday in the future. I hope they find some lessons in today's stack that'll allows them to move forward, even if it's to remind them of what NOT to do.
@neauoire @benklaasen @brouhaha The crux of all my harping on how permacomputing and retrocomputing and bootstrapping interact boil down to this _deliberately_ (did I mention deliberately?) flippant statement:
"I don't care what advances in data structures and compsci have been made in 40 years, if you can't implement them feasibly on a retro/low-resource computer, you're not using them for a bootstrap. Also applies to today's hardware- Idk how much of our knowledge base is bootstrappable."
@neauoire @benklaasen @brouhaha (This is all to say "Because we rely too much on computers designing computers, I think the retrocomputer of tomorrow will have less to tell us about how things were done than the retrocomputer of today does".)
@benklaasen @neauoire @brouhaha The former. Few ppl will willingly design using fewer resources b/c "number go up" is too tempting to ignore.
@benklaasen @neauoire @brouhaha I'd rather not see that vid.
Look, if the stage0 ppl can get a bootstrap working up to a g++ compiler, I'll be happy/satisfied.
@neauoire
Nice to be introduced to you! Lots to discuss here! I'm a supporter of #permacomputing; I think it's how computing must go. I guess the aversion to nostalgia is that it reeks of reaction. No historian worth their salt is nostalgic for the past they document. (I'd be suspicious of any who were.) What fascinates me about the field of computing is how wide open it was in various ways in the early decades - a kind of Cambrian explosion.
@cr1901 @brouhaha
Nice to be introduced to you! Lots to discuss here! I'm a supporter of #permacomputing; I think it's how computing must go. I guess the aversion to nostalgia is that it reeks of reaction. No historian worth their salt is nostalgic for the past they document. (I'd be suspicious of any who were.) What fascinates me about the field of computing is how wide open it was in various ways in the early decades - a kind of Cambrian explosion.
@cr1901 @brouhaha
@neauoire
I think there's less diversity now all the way up and down the stack: a handful of established architectures, a monopole of programming paradigms, parochial language ecosystems, and deeply entrenched user interface conventions. #retrocomputing can bring long-forgotten excellent ideas back into the conversation of what's possible.
@cr1901 @brouhaha
I think there's less diversity now all the way up and down the stack: a handful of established architectures, a monopole of programming paradigms, parochial language ecosystems, and deeply entrenched user interface conventions. #retrocomputing can bring long-forgotten excellent ideas back into the conversation of what's possible.
@cr1901 @brouhaha