#EJeanCarroll v #Trump closing arguments. Thread. 🪡 1/… #legal
Roberta Kaplan:
"You saw for yourself. E. Jean Carroll wasn't hiding anything."
Her testimony was "credible," "consistent," and "powerful."
Roberta Kaplan shows the clip of Trump's deposition video where he mixes up Carroll with Marla Maples.
2/ Kaplan:
"Mr. Trump pointed to Ms. Carroll, the woman he supposedly said was not his type." [...]He only corrected himself when his own lawyer" corrected him.
Trump "did why he always does" when caught: "He made up an excuse," saying that it was "blurry."
3/ "He grabbed her, using his words, 'by the p----.'".. shows clip of Trump saying stars "historically" grab women, "unfortunately or fortunately
"Who would say 'fortunately' to describe" an act of "sexual assault?" [...]
"He thinks stars like him can get away with it."
Robbie Kaplan on Trump skipping trial:
👉🏼"He didn't even bother to show up in person."👈🏼
4/ This is all via @KlasfeldReports btw:
Robbie Kaplan on Trump's video deposition:
"In a very real sense, Trump is a witness against himself." [...]
Trump "knows what he did. He knows he sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll."
Robbie Kaplan hashes out the timeline.
Carroll said it happened while she had her TV show "Ask E. Jean," which aired between July 1994 to July 1996.
She says she wore wool dress with tights, but no coat, which provides a hint on the weather, Kaplan said.
5/ Carroll said it must have happened after her friend Lisa Birnbach published her piece on Mar-a-Lago, which was Feb 1996. She believes it was on a Thurs, bc the store was open late that day.
"She was trying to come to grips with the fact that she was being attacked."
Kaplan says Carroll members the attack itself in "great detail.". explains to jurors why they showed Roger Ailes' interview w Trump..noted Ailes talk show shot in same building, on same network, where Carroll's show was taped
6/ Trump would have seen the end of Carroll's show if he watched his own interview with Ailes, unless he switched it on at the exact moment, Robbie Kaplan notes.
Note: I’m going to back up and add what Matthew Russell Lee is reporting:
All rise!
Judge Kaplan: OK, jury charge.
Objection is made, and sustained, to inclusion of phrase about "ejaculate." Then finance and, Trump
Trump's lawyer Brandt wants reference to financial capacity out.
Judge Kaplan: He called himself a "star." Overruled.
7/ Judge Kaplan: Bring in the jury.
Jury entering!
Judge Kapan: I hope you enjoyed this beautiful weekend. We're going to hear closing arguments now. I anticipate two hours, the defendant a bit more, then a half hour rebuttal. We'll order lunch early
Judge Kaplan: Tomorrow morning I'll instruct you on the law, 50 minutes or an hour and ten minutes, something like that - they you'll get the case. It remains important you have no contact with the press or social media.
9/ Counsel: You haven't heard much from Donald Trump in this trial. He said, She is not my type. He repeated that in his deposition. But when showed the photo DJT 23
[deposition played]
Counsel: He pointed at Ms. Carroll and said That's Marla, my wife. This is a photo of E. Jean Carroll. Their hairdo was the same. She was exactly his type. He made up an excuse. He said it was blurry. It is not blurry
10/ Now Access Hollywood tape played: Grab them by p*ssy.
Counsel: You heard Jessica Leeds & Natasha Stoynoff say he did just that to them. W Ms Carroll he, in his words, grabbed him by the p*ssy.
[deposition about history of a star can do anything played]
Counsel: He said it was fortunate stars like him can get away w it. We had 11 witnesses. On the other side? Only Trump. He didn't even bother to show up here in person. It's not he said, she said. It's what Trump said vs all other witnesses
11/ Counsel: Trump in this trial is a witness against himself. Let me give you an ex - the doors of the dressing rooms at Bergdorf Goodman were not, as the defense claims, always locked
[Note: Inner City Press went to Bergdorf, video later with booklet]
Counsel: Mr. Carroll can't specify the date, but she has all the details. She drove to 58th and 5th Avenue. She entered on the 58th Street entrance. Through that door she saw Donald Trump. They recognized each other. He was fairly well known.
12/ Counsel: Trump called E. Jean Carroll, That advice lady. Donald Trump loves to watch TV. He saw her on TV. He knew her through Roger Ailes. Mr. Trump went to the New Jersey TV studio where Ms. Carroll taped her show
Counsel: This was before streaming and YouTube. You put the channel on. You might see a few minutes of the previous show. For Donald Trump to see himself on Roger Ailes' show, he may have seen the end of E. Jean Carroll's show
14/ Counsel: This was a combination of humor and flirting. It was a joke. Like when Ms. Carroll was a writer for SNL. Tragically things took a dark turn. Into the dressing room, the door locked. She asked herself why she went in. She feels embarrassed and stupid
At that time Trump was known as a playboy, a man about town, not a predator. But he pounced. She pushed back. She weighed 120 lb, he at least 100 lb more. She tried to hit him with her purse. Trump pinned her and pulled down her tights
16/ Counsel: EJean Carroll went on a roadtrip; news broke about Harvey Weinstein. She conducted interviews. It was wks before she decided to incl Trump in her book. An excerpt was published in NY Magazine. Trump did more than deny it.
Trump attacked her from the White House, calling her a liar. She lost her job at Elle and the trust of her readers. She started sleeping with a loaded gun in her bed. She filed a lawsuit. But that did not stop him. In October 2022, Mr. Trump doubled down
18/ Okay, I'm back. Catching up from where we left off:
Counsel: You heard from expert Leslie Lebowitz that people remember traumatic events in strange ways - some details and not others. She told you Ms. Carroll suffered self-blame.
Counsel: Mr. Tapopina tried to imply there is something wrong with Ms. Carroll having tried to continue on to have a happy life, to open her Substack. Why is Mr. Trump trying to blame Ms. Carroll for these things? He argues that a victim must act like a victim.
20/ Counsel: In 2016, Leeds saw Trump running for president, deny he assaulted women. Stoynoff, in December 2005 had been in Mar-a-Lago. Trump used his M.O., closed the door and pinned her against the wall. 👉 The pattern is clear👈
LIES:
Trump says he didn't shop at Bergdorf. That was a lie. He said he didn't meet Ms. Carroll. That was a lie. He said she was not his type - but confused her with Marla Maples. He lied and said the professionally taken photo was blurry. He lied about Ailes
21/ Counsel: He had appeared with Ailes on TV, already friends in 1995. Donald Trump is lying... Tomorrow am Judge Kaplan will tell you about the law. He told you this is not a criminal case. It is a civil case. If he's liable, he's not going to jail.
The law allows you to compensate E. Jean Carroll. I'm not going to tell you how much. On behalf of our team and E. Jean Carroll, thank you.
[Whispered sidebar]Judge Kaplan: Jurors, you can start lunch now. We'll resume at noon w defense closing.
22/ Whoa.
Via Klasfeld that I missed:
Robbie Kaplan:
"News—
Robbie Kaplan says she will decline to offer a specific damage award request.
"For E. Jean Carroll, this lawsuit is not about the money."
Instead, she says, it's about getting her "name back."
23/ Catching up on the rest of Klasfeld. Here's more:
After Carroll went forward in the wake of #MeToo, Trump attacked her from his White House perch, Kaplan says.
Concerned for her security in the blowback, Kaplan said, Carroll started sleeping with a loaded gun in her bed.
Robbie Kaplan quotes psychological expert Dr. Lebowitz as saying: "People have really strange, really unexpected reactions to traumatic situations all the time."
24/ Though Tacopina suggested Carroll not screaming was implausible, the expert testified that screaming "is one of the least likely things to actually occur," Kaplan noted.
Kaplan says that Carroll remembers the alleged rape in "vivid, technicolor detail." [...]
"She remembers the sound of Trump's heavy breathing as he was facing the wall next to her neck." [...]
"She remembers certain things vividly, and other things, not so much."
25/ Kaplan:
"The psychological expert in this case believes Ms. Carroll."
Robbie Kaplan summarizing Trump's defense:
"If a woman is going to accuse a man of sexual assault, she must play the part."
Robbie Kaplan, later, on that subject:
"That's just plain wrong."
Kaplan refers to the "Big Lie" at the heart of Trump's defense: That Carroll, Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin are all lying.
"I'm sorry. Seriously? That's just ridiculous."
26/ In fact, Kaplan notes, Martin and Birnbach's independent texts affirm that Carroll told them in 1996. Martin's private text refers to a "simple chat with a friend 25 years ago."
In another, Birnbach wrote Carroll: "It wasn't political in 1996 when you told me. It was personal." Kaplan notes that these were candid text messages that neither of them wanted exposed to the world during discovery:
"These were private texts that Carol Martin &Lisa Birnbach never expected to see the light of day"
27/ Martin's same text messages that showed unflattering statements about her friend E. Jean Carroll also showed them alluding to their 1996 conversation, where Carroll said that Trump attacked her.
In order to win, Trump needs jurors to conclude that all three women perjured themselves in the courtroom, Kaplan notes.
She adds that they know that didn't happen.
28/ Kaplan shows a chart of Carroll, Stoynoff, and Leeds allegations.
All share the following elements: "Semi-Public Place," "Grab Suddenly," and "Not My Type."
All fields are checked off for all three women.
Kaplan notes that they share another similarity:
None of them screamed.
Kaplan says that Trump's case boils down to a claim that everyone is lying:
"As Bugs Bunny used to say at the end of the Looney Tunes [episodes] that I loved as a kid, 'That's all folks.'"
29/ Kaplan asks jurors to reject that Carroll roped in several witnesses to give sworn testimony to an "extreme hoax."
Kaplan adds on that, later:
"Does that make any sense at all, or does that suggest that there is one person here who's lying — and that that person is Donald Trump?"
"Trump isn't offering a "middle ground" and doesn't admit that he was in Bergdorf Goodman.
He doesn't claim there was consent.
He claims that every "sworn detail" is a lie.
30/ Kaplan:
"You have to conclude that Donald Trump, the nonstop liar, is the only person in here telling the truth."
Me: Okay, that's everything. Recess, then defense closing.
33/ REMINDER: I'm posting from 2 sources watching this, so some redundancies in my thread.
Tac: "One thing in this country that cannot be compromised, that could not be bent, [...] is the justice system."
"It's our defense against all tyranny. Tacopina reprises his comments from the beginning:
No one's above the law. Absolutely, but no one's below it either.
Another one:
"Politicians don't make this country great. Jurors do."
34/ Tacopina contests framing that it's everyone else's word against Donald Trump. He claims Carroll's own testimony discredits her:
"He didn't tear apart her story. She tore apart her story."
Tacopina: People have passionate feeling about Donald Trump, either way. But the court is not the place to express it - that's for the ballot box. No one's below the law. If you apply the law to the facts justice will be served - quickly. Quickly.
35/ Tacopina: Ms. Carroll has abused the system. She brought a case for money, and victimized real rape victims, exploiting their pain and suffering. We cannot let her profit from her abuse of this process. I'm going to pull it all together
Ms. Kaplan said *maybe* Mr. Trump met Ms. Carroll at a TV studio in New Jersey... Or he saw a re-run. Maybe the door was open. I'm going to play you his denial:
[Deposition, Trump: It didn't happen. If it had, it would have been reported with minutes
36/ Tacopina: Let's put up Plaintiff's Exhibit 12
[That exhibit, released after Press request, is below - none of the defense exhibits have been released, nor withholding argued for by the May 6 deadline
Tacopina: How do you prove a negative? If Donald Trump had come, what could I have asked him? About some unknown date? This is a civil case. They could have called Donald Trump. But they didn't. They just want you to hate him enough
37/ Tacopina shows another clip from Trump's deposition, showing his client's response to a question about whether Trump reached out to Bergdorf Goodman:
"I didn't have to reach out to anybody because it didn't happen."
Trump on E. Jean Carroll in the deposition, shown to the jury now:
"I think she's sick, mentally sick."
Tacopina:
"That was his under oath testimony saying it's not true. I didn't do it."
38/ (re photo in #36 in my thread)
"For some reason, she held onto this photograph for three decades." He derisively discounts the notion that the image of the brief conversation shows Trump knew her.
Tacopina says Carroll's allegation forces the defense to prove a negative.
He compares it to an allegation of stealing a pen at an unknown date.
The only way to defend against it is to deny it, he says.
39/ (Again, these are redundant and out of order bc I'm quoting 2 court reporters here)
Tacopina: Why did they call Cande Carroll - to say, Dad told us to smile? It was all meant to distract you from E. Jean Carroll's story. Those other women have nothing to do it. They have no legal claim for you to decide. Ms Leeds says she was assaulted on a plane
40/ Tacopina accuses Carroll of inventing a detail about the rape allegedly happening on a Thursday on the witness stand.
"She tailored her testimony right in front of you."
He adds later: "What they want is for you to hate him enough to ignore the facts."
Tacopina on the testimony of Trump accusers Jessica Leeds and Natasha Stoynoff:
"They have nothing to do about whether you should believe E. Jean Carroll's unbelievable story."
41/ Tacopina highlights his cross-ex of Leeds, whose testimony that Trump sexually assaulted her on a plane he calls "absurd."
Q: So it is your testimony that getting sexually assaulted on a plane is sort of just rigors of travel?
A: Yes.
Tacopina: Ms. Leeds says she didn't tell her boss because she didn't want to complain about the rigors of travel. Are you kidding me? She says Donald Trump called her "the c*nt from the airplane," in front of his wife. She was enraged in front of her TV
42/ Tacopina: Ms. Stoynoff, I did ask her, Do you have anything for this jury to decide? How many times did they play the Access Hollywood tape - five? Donald Trump said women LET you do it. Yes it was crude. He apologized for it in the debate with Hillary Clinton [ME: 🤦♀️ 🙄 ]
They are using the Art of Distraction. They are trying to take parts of Donald Trump you hate and stretch them over her story. If this weren't about Trump, we wouldn't be here today. No way.
[ME: Weak, Tackypina, weak]
43/ Tacopina calls the testimony of the other accusers "distractions," saying they were called for the same reason they played the "Access Hollywood" five times.
He describes it as showing what Trump says women are "letting" stars do.
"It's crude, it's rude," he says.
(Again: I'M NOT THERE. I'm quoting @KlasfeldReports and Matthew Russell Lee)
44/ Tacopina hammers the Law & Order SVU episode testimony hard.
Tacopina: Here's the email about the Law & Order episode. What does Ms. Carroll say? That this kind of thing happens all the time. All the time? Rape in a lingerie changing room in Bergdorf Goodman? Give me a break.
Carroll's lawyer: Objection. Your Honor, you issued an order about this very issue, yesterday I think -
Judge Kaplan: Yesterday?
Carroll's lawyer Roberta Kaplan: I apologize, we wrote about it yesterday.
45/ More: Plaintiff objects, asking for a limiting instruction.
Judge begins: "There is a distinction to be drawn here, and ultimately, you will decide what to make of this if anything."
Judge tells jurors that the "alleged" episode was not offered for the truth of the matter.
He notes that the evidence before the jury was an email sent to Carroll about the episode.
If the email said the "moon was made of green cheese," jurors wouldn't need to conclude the moon was made of green cheese.
46/ Tacopina's distinction:
When asked about the existence of the episode, Carroll replied: "I am aware, yes."
"This seems pretty clear evidence [...] that that episode existed."
Tacopina said:
"Back to the coincidence: 'Are you kidding me?'"
He refers to the transcript:
Q: What do you mean amazing? I assuming amazing coincidence?
A: Yes. Astonishing.
47/ Tacopina derides allegation that his client would "risk it all" to rape someone across the street from Trump Tower, "within minutes":
"'Apprentice' over. Trump Tower over. Everything over."
48/ Tacopina:"Donald Trump is shopping in the most attentive, upscale store in NYC," possibly the "world."
Tacopina: According to Ms. Carroll, the sixth floor of Bergdorf Goodman was like The Walking Dead, the tv show. No one there at all. "That doesn't sound right, and I think you know that," he adds late... I come from regular stock, 👉 it offended me👈 when they said sales clerks cannot be trusted to follow the rules.
[ME: But Rapist Trump DOESN'T offend him?]
49/ Tac on Carroll:"She needs to reverse engineer a story. She needed to create a scenario where no one else would be involved — No one else would be involved."
Tacopina:
👉 "Her tights didn't rip after this 'colossal struggle.'"👈
[Me: EXCUSE ME??!]
Tac: Ms. Carroll had to reverse engineer her story. Then there's the physical attack she alleges. How does Mr. Trump unzip while she is hitting him with her bag, in 4 in. heels? So they have a hired gun, Dr Lebowitz, $650/hr. She was not credible
@GottaLaff Potential rebuttal: "We don't know what his client would risk, how sick he is, or whether he just assumed he would get away with it as he has so many other times. Why? Because Donald Trump blew off this trial and chose not to tell you under oath what he was thinking. His attorney's speculation is not evidence."
OK, the "blew off" may need a bit of tweaking, but you get the gist of it.
@erikalyn @GottaLaff I imagine rebuttal goes something like this:
Tacopina: why would he risk everything?
Rebuttal: [Play 'Grab then by the p****, they let you do it' tape]
@GottaLaff risk everything? Trump risked the things that were going to happen 6-9 years in the future from the event?
How does time work for this turdgurgler?
@GottaLaff "The testimony of #JeanCarroll and her witnesses is uncontroverted, because #DonaldTrump chose to hide behind his lawyer rather than coming in here and telling you his story under oath."
This is not a quote from Kaplan, but I'm wondering to what extent she did use Trump's failure to testify against him?
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