PugloafApr 30, 2023
Aaron Toponce ⚛️

It's kind of hilarious to me how toxic the word "telemetry" has become. Don't get me wrong, the ad tracking industry has ruined it for everyone. However

Firefox users: Disable telemetry! It's an enemy to your privacy!
Mozilla: We removed a feature no one was using due to a lack of telemetry data.
Firefox users: I use it all the time! Why are you bad at this!

1Password users: I trust AgileBits to safely handle my data.
AgileBits: We added telemetry.
1Password users: Why do you hate my privacy?!

Apr 30, 2023 at 1:11amWeb
Show threadLate Night OwlApr 30, 2023

@atoponce I wonder what could help.

For me, it could show an example JSON containing collected data, stripped from all timestamps, just as a sum of *stuff* over a week or so. Plus maybe a checkmark to disable some data, which would wipe the data from the JSON and label the key as disabled. To offer as much transparency as possible.

But that's just me, I am definitely not a representative sample.

Show threadDookieApr 30, 2023
@atoponce mozilla shouldnt remove features because theyre not often used. i still need them sometimes.
Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Apr 30, 2023
@dookie I disagree. Mainitaing a large complex piece of software like Firefox does not come for free. Mozilla needs to know what priorities to spend time working on. When it's clear via telemetry that certain features are net being utilized as initially planned, they definitely should make the choice on whether to maintain it or remove it.
Show threadJuniperApr 30, 2023
@atoponce @dookie extensions could recreate functionality anyways couldn't they
Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Apr 30, 2023
@jaiden @dookie Yeah Probably depends on the functionality. I'm sure there some deep stuff that extensions don't have access to. Not sure.
Show threadDookieApr 30, 2023
@atoponce google is paying them hundreds of millions per year to make sure money isn't a concern
Show thread★ Amy Star ★Apr 30, 2023

@atoponce telemetry changes the app/user dynamic.

as opposed to using an app where you can see the cause and effect (i.e: Firefox -> you input a URL -> a page loads), telemetry is usually hidden, obfuscated, and vague.

it's like a scientist standing over you silently taking notes. what are they writing? what purpose does it serve? how much of it is personally-identifiable? have fun picking through a 10,000-line blob of JSON if you want to find out! it's reduces users to feeling like lab rats.

Show thread★ Amy Star ★Apr 30, 2023

@atoponce part of it is a tooling problem. if you want users to be chill with it, you need to build a UI that shows them the exact same breakdown of usage statistics as you get on your fancy telemetry backend service that spits out pie charts or whatever.

you have to make them equals in the conversation, or they'll feel like cattle, and will reject you.

Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Apr 30, 2023
@AmyZenunim This is a communication problem, not a telemetry problem. If you don't know what the scientist is writing, either the scientist didn't clarify or you didn't ask. The act of taking notes isn't bad by itself.
Show thread★ Amy Star ★Apr 30, 2023
@atoponce sure, but the vast majority of the internet is run by VC-backed firms who treat their users as either the product or like cattle (or both). so unless you go the extra ten miles to communicate your intentions, they're going to assume you're just another one of those companies (or have been taken over by user-hostile VCs), and will react accordingly.
Show threadAaron Toponce ⚛️Apr 30, 2023
@AmyZenunim Yes. I did mention in the original post that ad tracking orgs ruined for everyone. But the point is not everyone is doing Evil Things with your data. Cases in point, Mozilla and AgileBits.
Show thread★ Amy Star ★Apr 30, 2023
@atoponce and my point is that organizations who use telemetry are going to have to prove it above and beyond what they think would squash reasonable doubt. that's the environment we live in now.
Show threadTajomaApr 30, 2023
@atoponce I have more trust for telemetry in open source projects like Dolphin, Gnome, etc. But it's hard to imagine Microsoft is being benevolent with all the telemetry options in Windows.
Show threadIAGApr 30, 2023
@atoponce Telemetry is a scare word nowadays. Telemetry is actually a very good thing if used correctly. You as a software developer can use telemetry to automatically receive crash reports and usage statistics to see what needs to be fixed and what can be ignored.
This is all under one simple condition: The user can choose what data they do or don't want to send at will, including not sending data at all.
The problem with most telemetry courtesy of big companies is that it violates this condition and also sends unreasonable quantities and types of data that are probably used for advertising purposes; something that telemetry should NEVER be used for, EVER.
Show threadKushal DaveMay 1, 2023

@atoponce Amen. I also enjoyed

Signal: we have no telemetry because it is Tracking
Interviewers: how do you decide what to build?
Signal: we hire people who remember what they learned working on messengers with telemetry

Show threadalysMay 1, 2023
@atoponce i get why people are so gunshy about telemetry, but i think people would benefit from putting a little more thought into what they're actually worried about. what information do you actually want to protect?