Anil DashApr 25, 2023
Since some people have asked me, here's a quick thread on initial experience comparison between Bluesky and the fediverse. It's important to note that this comparison is somewhat absurd by default because Bluesky is still tiny & unproven, but there's interest so I'm happy to share what I've observed. Also, I don't get into protocol differences because honestly who cares. So:
Show threadAnil DashApr 25, 2023

The fediverse (including Mastodon) is better at: having been proven to scale, having multiple places running different services, offering more choice of apps, giving a choice of legal jurisdictions and business/non-profit models, and is still growing far faster, especially globally.

Bluesky is better at: Onboarding & signup experience, having fewer choices to make, quality of the default app, familiarity for people used to Twitter's design, discovery of other users within the existing service.

Show threadAnil DashApr 25, 2023
Here are things we don't know: What Bluesky's trust, safety & abuse policies will look like at scale, compared to fediverse services. Mastodon and other fediverse services have been uneven at times, but have matured over years; Bluesky is still tiny and hasn't been tested at all. We don't know if Bluesky can scale, either technically or socially.
Show threadAnil DashApr 25, 2023
There are also platform features that people might legitimately have different goals for. Bluesky makes content & people searchable by default, which Mastodon only does for hashtagged content. This aids discovery, but can also enable kinds of abuse. Fediverse partisans argue this constraint helps build healthy community, but many newer users find it a frustrating omission. Both platforms let you use your own domain, but it's much harder to do so on the fediverse right now.
Show threadAnil DashApr 25, 2023
People's perception of the overall fediverse is (probably unfairly) shaped by Mastodon, though many other services make different choices around key features that others might find meaningful. Understanding federation is a huge barrier for people who just want to (re)connect with friends or institutions. People's perception of Bluesky is shaped by Jack Dorsey's role in its initial conception; we don't yet know whether that's fair, though he doesn't seem very involved at all.
Show threadAnil DashApr 27, 2023
My feeling, which I expect will encounter some resistance for a while, is that if Bluesky succeeds (for whatever definition of "success"), it's just part of the fediverse. Email has thrived for a long time with multiple protocols making it run behind the scenes; there's no reason that the new wave of social networks built on the open web can't share that trait.
Show threadjwzApr 27, 2023

@anildash My strong suspicion is that Bluesky (or any similar corporate product that preaches federation) will use federation for their initial growth spurt, and then find a way to pull up the drawbridge once private equity or the Saudis decide that lock-in sounds more profitable.

I don't know why I would be so cynical, except for my lying eyes and the entire history of Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube, RSS, XMPP, OpenID, and even Open Graph meta tags.

Show threadUbergeekApr 27, 2023

@jwz @anildash Hell, let's look at email, which is a very decentralized service, that a lot of vendors jumped into, and now...

Google and Microsoft largely determine who is allowed to send emails to people.

Show threadSimon LucyApr 28, 2023

@ubergeek @jwz @anildash

That isn't my experience, probably because email was the first tool chain I dabbled into on the internet and for consumer users 'retail' brands dominate the landscape, but they don't own it.

There are plenty of viable alternatives.

Show threadjwz
@simon_lucy Anyone using email an an example of a federation success is someone who has not tried to actually operate a mail server in the last 20 years. Ask me how I know.
Apr 28, 2023 at 8:03amWeb
Show threadSimon LucyApr 28, 2023

@jwz
No I wouldn't do anything like that. It isn't federated now and I dislike the comparison that some make to 'explain' federation of social media to it.

I don't think, even in the good old days, when running mail servers was necessary it was federated.

Show threadUbergeekApr 28, 2023
@simon_lucy @jwz it still is federated. We just have a couple of companies that control who can federate, is all.
Show threadSlyphicApr 28, 2023
@jwz I've been a mail admin (FOSS on-prem) for a large university within the last 10 years, and my own personal-friends-and-family mail server has been running continually since '08 (sporadically and unprofessionally before that in my youth). It's work for sure, but it doesn't look too much harder than, say, running an active multi-user Fediverse instance competently.
Show threadjwzApr 28, 2023
@Slyphic Oh, come on.
Show threadSlyphicApr 28, 2023
@jwz When's the last time you ran either dude?
Show threadjwzApr 28, 2023

@Slyphic I run my own mail server for my business which serves not only local users but also needs bulk delivery to *actually succeed* to hundreds of thousands of outside addresses, and I have been doing so for two decades, when most in my position have just given up and turned over essential business operations to Google.

So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about, and you can go fuck yourself.

Show threadSlyphicApr 28, 2023

@jwz
I'm not arguing there hasn't been a move to centralization of email, or that it's work to run one, but to say it's not viable nowadays while running one is not a coherent argument. You aren't a special wizard, there's tens of thousands of people as capable as either of us.

But since you want to slap epeens on the table, we pruned old inactive accounts to stay under a million active end-of-yearly. So like orders of magnitudes bigger than yours.

Ditto.