Laurie VossApr 27, 2023
What's that you say? Bluesky crossed a few hundred thousand users and immediately started having moderation issues? You don't say! Who could have possibly predicted? etc.
Show threadmekka okereke 

@seldo

In fairness to them, they're trying to build in public, and didn't expect this much attention yet.

They opened their invite-only private beta, where they hoped to control a tiny user list, before they'd even implemented blocks.

Sign-ups are protected by sign-up keys, but unfortunately, they didn't rate-limit their sign-up API, and the keys were quite short, so someone wrote a script to brute-force guess sign-up keys. So some nazis got in. 🤷🏿‍♂️

Blocks are being implemented this week.

Apr 27, 2023 at 2:20pmWeb
Show threadSam WronskiApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo This feels like it's unnecessarily generous to them? They've built social networks before and done this kind of rollout before. This was a very problem that they chose to ignore, that shouldn't give them a license to ignore their responsibility for the outcome.
Show threadmekka okereke Apr 27, 2023

@runewake2 @seldo Probably? But "they" haven't built social networks before. The BlueSky team is 5 people, lead by Jay Graber. They wasted 5 years trying to make crypto happen, then (hopefully) realized that crypto sucks, is not going to happen, and ruins lives, but that Merkle Search Trees are kinda cool, and didn't the web used to be more fun way back when. So they made BlueSky.

She has a suspect investor / board member, but Jack is not building this. All praise/criticism should go to Jay.

Show threadSam WronskiApr 27, 2023

@mekkaokereke @seldo I really think we're past the point of claiming ignorance of these issues though? Like these issues feel really well documented and the harm from moving fast and breaking things is also *very* well known. As engineers working on large scale systems there is a responsibility to consider these things and forgoing that for the sake of moving fast is an intentional choice.

What I'm saying here is that it was a business decision and choice for BlueSky to welcome these people.

Show threadGlyphApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @runewake2 @seldo I think it’s fair to say that anyone who is *just now* figuring out that crypto is a bad idea is absolutely not qualified to run a social media network or design its protocol, and nobody should trust them for another decade or so. The sorts of decisions that we see here are not overtly malicious but are fully consistent with and emblematic of a sort of juvenile utopian libertarian worldview that’s wreaked plenty of havoc already.
Show threadbillheywoodApr 27, 2023
@glyph @mekkaokereke @runewake2 @seldo
They are basically all too ignorant to know what a pyramid selling scheme is. That's why they all fell for it
Show threadCharlie StrossApr 28, 2023

@glyph @mekkaokereke @runewake2 @seldo

Their motto seems to be "move fast and break things (that were built by or belong to other people, and it's those folks who'll have to pay to repair or replace what you damaged because they can't afford to sue you)".

Show threadacbApr 28, 2023
@cstross @glyph @mekkaokereke @runewake2 @seldo If you don’t break other people’s things open, how can you extract the surplus value inside (which you know you would use to its full potential, unlike them)?
Show threadProf. Catherine FlickApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo sorry but I have to disagree. If you’re building a social network in 2023 and you’re not starting with solid moderation capabilities your development philosophy is really broken. As soon as you get real people using things they’re going to try to find the boundaries of what’s acceptable. Especially when there’s internet kudos to be had for shitposting and being “edgy”. Test it amongst friends you trust, not internet randos.
Show threadBruno GirinApr 27, 2023
@CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke @seldo the fact that you could brute-force guess sign-up keys doesn't bode well for their security skills either. A startup in stealth mode could get away with that, not the much hyped Son of Twitter.
Show threadKevin P. FlemingApr 27, 2023
@CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke @seldo Where 'social network' includes *any* service of any kind which provides user-to-user or user-to-group messaging.
Show threadpyromechanicalApr 27, 2023
@CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke @seldo something something vidme
Show threadBenjamin ReedApr 27, 2023
@CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke @seldo Yeah, we wrote a tiny social network for JoCo Cruise that’s only used on a boat once a year and even with a tight community of no more than about 2000 liberal-leaning nerds we’ve had to implement moderation. It’s pretty much a requirement as soon as you think more than a double-digit number of humans are gonna be on it.
Show threadNegative12DollarBillApr 29, 2023

@CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke @seldo

When you ask on BlueSky why blocking isn't implemented, you get referred to an airy, wandering theoretical post about how there are Interesting Technical Questions To Be Answered. Server level or client? Public or not? What about servers which don't respect blocking?

Completely bonkers that they think "interesting philosophical questions, amirite?" is a valid response.

Show threadLaurie VossApr 29, 2023
@negative12dollarbill @CatherineFlick @mekkaokereke I mean they implemented blocking today so apparently the philosophy has been sorted out.
Show threadmekka okereke Apr 29, 2023

@seldo @negative12dollarbill @CatherineFlick

Yup.
https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/pull/922

Blocks by dholms · Pull Request #922 · bluesky-social/atproto

Social networking technology created by Bluesky. Contribute to bluesky-social/atproto development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
Show threadOlivier ForgetApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo "they're trying to build in public" Are they? It seems to me they build behind closed doors and then toss the thing into the open. They were super secretive for the longest time. That's not "building in public".
Show threadJorge StolfiApr 27, 2023

@mekkaokereke @seldo

In other words, they are abysmally incompetent.

Show threadPatApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo yeah, none of this sounds encouraging. SM and moderation is not high on your list until the horse is out of the barn? yeah, no
Show threadmekka okereke Apr 27, 2023

@Pat @seldo

True. But let me share this about Mastodon...

Many Black Fedi users, including me, have received comments on their posts including graphic images and videos of real humans being murdered, along with racist slurs. Most white Mastodon users don't even see these threats, because of how comments and replies work on Mastodon.

When Black users complain about this, they're told to CW the discussion of their own abuse, but the abuse vectors don't get closed. And it's been years. 🤷🏿‍♂️

Show threadPatApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo I mean, that's awful as well but I'm not sure how that gives Dorsey a pass? sort of sounds like you're saying we just have to accept it? maybe that is where SM is, I really don't know. and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this, truly.
Show threadmekka okereke Apr 27, 2023

@Pat @seldo

"All N-words should be killed and hung from trees!" Along with images of burned Black bodies from a lynching.

Black users see this, but other users on their instance don't, because of how replies work. When Black users talk about it, they're told to CW the discussion. Then told "This is how Fedi comments work! WAI! WONTFIX. Just move servers! (And lose all your posts!)"

Alternatively, some white users will say, "I've been on Fedi for years and I've never seen anything like that!"

Show threadPatApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo yes, I understood what you were saying. but again, this gives Dorsey a pass? we are to accept all SM as bad? well, then I guess it is what it is. I'm not saying the fedi is blameless but if someone is spooling up a new forum surely they can see where the failure modes are especially if they've done this b/4?
Show threadmekka okereke Apr 27, 2023

@Pat @seldo

No, I'm not saying this gives Jack Dorsey a pass. It doesn't. No passes for him.

I'm saying that moderation sucks for Black people everywhere, and for many Black users, including me, Mastodon is by far the worst moderation experience they've ever had on any social media. And lots of Mastodon users just don't want to accept that.

And BlueSky isn't Jack. It's Jay Graber. Give her her agency. All credit or blame should go to her. Jack is just one of her questionable board members.

Show threadmekka okereke Apr 27, 2023

@Pat @seldo

YMMV, and the best moderation experience I've ever had on any social media was also on Mastodon.

The gap between mastodon.social, and hachyderm.io, is immense.

Show threadPatApr 27, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo ok, thanks. social is obviously not my instance and from what I gather it's a good thing. ok, I'll give it some time to see what happens and hopefully a better experience for all, especially you.
Show threadWilliam PietriApr 27, 2023

@mekkaokereke @Pat @seldo

I appreciate the point, but I think that undersells Jack's influence. He started Bluesky and as far as I can tell he's the only funder. It's effectively his company. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bluesky-514d/company_financials

Bluesky - Funding, Financials, Valuation & Investors

Bluesky is a new social media platform.

Crunchbase
Show threadjoshbuddyApr 28, 2023
@mekkaokereke @Pat @seldo what would be ideal moderation for Black people?
Show threadManojApr 28, 2023
@mekkaokereke @seldo Haha.. Why build in public if not for the attention?