Janet VertesiApr 21, 2023
Well, if today is any indication there’s one thing SpaceX can do that NASA definitely can’t: Have a massive and much-hyped spacecraft blow up spectacularly after launch and then the camera pans to everyone applauding wildly and saying, “Wow, what a great test, we learned so much!” instead of “Wow, how dangerous and irresponsible, NASA has lost its touch, we can’t trust them, maybe should give all its money to some upstart company.”
Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023

@cyberlyra it's a different approach to development than present day NASA's.

NASA has taken 11 years and over $20B to get one successful launch of SLS. A launch that resulted in the entire vehicle except for the capsule being dumped into the ocean. With luck there will be a second SLS launch in 2025. And another billion dollar vehicle at the bottom of the ocean.

About 4 years ago SpaceX started from zero on the Booster/Starship combo and have now flown, if ever so briefly, the largest and most powerful rocket ever made.

While I'm no fan of Elno, the SpaceX approach is closer to the way that put Americans on the moon in less than a decade. If you were around or read up on that era you'll find a lot of rocket explosions back then, too.

Show threadJanet Vertesi
@HalDe Your opinion neatly demonstrates my point: a cultural willingness to accept SpaceX’s heroism as akin to Apollo and earlier days, while deriding NASA for perceived bloat and wastefulness.
Apr 21, 2023 at 3:04amMastodon for iOS
Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023

@cyberlyra I did 10 years as a NASA contractor at JSC a few decades ago. Was there when Challenger blew up. Doesn't make me an expert but I have seen how the sausage is made. It was pretty disillusioning.

NASA's biggest problem is Congress, mostly not NASA people. Or maybe more correctly, being jerked in a new direction every time there's a political change.

SpaceX has a focus and drive that is missing at NASA now. The tail end of that drive was trickling away when I was around.

Show threadJanet VertesiApr 21, 2023

@HalDe Cool. What were you working on at JSC?

The problem with fiscal and political continuity is a big one. It produces uncertainty and funding asynchrony and causes a lot of downstream issues. I’m writing a book about this right now so I’m thinking a lot about these questions.

Maybe SpaceX benefits from being sheltered from the boom/bust cycle somewhat? There is a lot of enthusiasm, but my understanding from the people I know there, a lot of burnout too.

Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023

@cyberlyra Yes, funding whiplash. Seemed to me a lot of NASA effort got put into spreading jobs around to as many different states as possible.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lot of burnout at SpaceX. Elno is not someone I'd care to work for. Relentless pace.

Did a number of different things at JSC working for a long gone division of IBM. Worked a number of proposal teams. My name is on a couple of software design documents for the version of Space Station that was proposed by McDonnell-Douglas team. Bigger than what was eventually built. I never worked on Shuttle but had a lot of friends who did.

Show threadNate Vack 🍴Apr 21, 2023

@cyberlyra @HalDe My feeling is that testing rockets to destruction is not inherently dangerous or bad. The FAA is serious about protecting the public, and they have the teeth to stop launches.

On NASA wastefulness: I think they do the best they can with Congressional requirements. I do think their budget is better spent on basic science than in designing and building launchers

JWST and the Mars rovers are awesome; I wish they could have spent the SLS budget on things like that.

Show threadJanet VertesiApr 21, 2023
@njvack @HalDe I wish you could see the strain behind the scenes associated with accounting for 100% public funding. Compared to the way cash flows in the private sector, it would put the final nail in the coffin about any question related to government inefficiency and spending waste.
Show threadNate Vack 🍴Apr 21, 2023

@cyberlyra @HalDe I work in research at a public university; I have zero belief that NASA is wasting money. I think that Congress tells them to do silly things, though.

NASA tried to say "we don't want to build launchers anymore" at the end of the shuttle program and Congress told them they had to, so we have SLS. And NASA has done a good job making it.

But that doesn't mean I think SLS is fundamentally a good idea; I wish NASA could spend that budget sending a lander to Europa

Show threadNate Vack 🍴Apr 21, 2023
@cyberlyra @HalDe I also think publicly funding sending humans back to the moon is a silly idea. I suspect most of NASA agrees. But they don't get to say no; that's their priority as set by Congress.
Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023
@njvack @cyberlyra Agree, moon landing for the sake of landing is dumb. Now if they'll build a base to work on long duration research!
Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023
@njvack @cyberlyra Would really really like to see a lander on Europa in my lifetime!
Show threadHalDe 🧢🦕Apr 21, 2023

@njvack @cyberlyra It all depends on your definition of "waste".

$20B on a vehicle that is roughly 0% reusable and is kind of a Saturn V with Space Shuttle SRBs and main engines, is expected to cost $2B/launch*, and is all built on a cost-plus contract could be one possible definition of wasteful.

Are the accountants tracking every dollar? Sure, no doubt of that. Is the money accomplishing something useful? I'd say no, not really. Unless it's just a jobs program.

*My only source for the per launch cost is the Wikipedia article for the SLS. My recollection is that Shuttle cost close to a billion per launch so two billion for SLS is believable. But I'm almost 30 years beyond my days as a NASA contractor so could be wrong.

Show threadNate Vack 🍴Apr 22, 2023
@HalDe @cyberlyra Right — but it’s Congress wasting money, not NASA.