Mastodawn

Jacob Andersen

@marcoarment probably, if history is any indication. Unless they are forced to - or believe there is no way they will escape being forced to in the extremely near future.

IMO it should be illegal to run an App Store like Apple’s (yes, also for game consoles). There should always be the option of going outside the “official system”. It’s MY phone.
If the App Store’s control is critical to the security or integrity of the system, then it should be illegal to charge for it.

@marcoarment I’ll be clear, it should not be legal for them to claim an ongoing revenue-dependant fee for access to their platform - unless the developer chose to use their full service system.

The iPhone model is immoral. Calling it a console (as @gruber has done for example) just makes it clear, that game consoles are similarly problematic - although the signicance to the wider economy and culture the smartphone has, makes the comparison a little ludicrous.

@agentjacob @marcoarment @gruber
Of course you all want the policies changed. From where you sit that would have a number of objectively positive outcomes (money, cust relationship, approvals, etc).

I just want the app store to be filled with GOOD apps, not garbage. I genuinely don't know what policy is most likely to generate the best customer outcome.

Is that sideloading? I don't know, maybe? But I do know that lots of unscrupulous devs will do sneaky shit, even if the good ones don’t…

@kraigschmidt @marcoarment @gruber for my part, I’m just a consumer. I just want it to be clear, that Apple doesn’t own the phone once they sell it to me.

@agentjacob @marcoarment @gruber
That is a very reasonable point of view, but what does that really mean at the end of the day?

With respect to software, and licensing etc, I feel like the horse has already left the barn? It started with consoles, but that model exists in a number of places, I think?

And honestly, I'm not convinced that Apple shouldn't take *more* control and take the app store ‘up-market’.

Because while good stuff *is* present, it is statistically overwhelmed by the dreck…

@kraigschmidt @marcoarment @gruber By allowing side-loading they’d be completely free to do so. They could make the App Store the premium experience they pretend it is today.

They never would of course, because their bread is buttered by semi-scammy games selling in-app purchases to kids and bored people.

@agentjacob @marcoarment @gruber
I get what you mean by sideloading allowing them to make the App Store… more exclosuive. I would love it if ever did that!

But my impression is that's not how they think about sideloading, like, at all. Its easy to say its because of scammy subs, but that's too easy also.

I think there is a genuine belief that (whatever the faults of the current App Store) a freely open system (aka sideloading) like with PCs would be way way worse for MOST customers?

@agentjacob @marcoarment @gruber
Now, most people having this convo are NOT regular customers. Just by being on Masto, we are NOT regular customers.

And yes, that sentiment, however much good faith in which it may be held, is muddied by the corrupting revenue stream of scammy shit.

But all (or at least, more than one) of these things can be true at the same time…

@kraigschmidt @marcoarment @gruber fair enough, I might be slightly irregular, but I’m not a developer was my point.

@agentjacob @marcoarment Unless I’m greatly mistaken, Apple doesn’t charge for security and integrity (how much does AirBnB contributes to the store?)

@myrmidon @marcoarment they charge for access to revenue via their system. And they hinder most businesses to make their own decisions about how to distribute apps and charge money. One of their arguments for this restriction is “safety”.
If they thought Airbnb, Amazon and others would stay on the platform, they’d be charging them too.
The margins of selling physical goods make the commission impossible, which I guess Apple knows.

@agentjacob @marcoarment This is one way to see it, another way is to see this as a commission of doing business IN the device. This pays for the “service” enjoyed by every developer.
I can’t wait for side-loading to happen with its scams & others surprises. Normal users have everything to loose. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.

@myrmidon @marcoarment those quotes around service make it seem like it might not be worth 30%. If people assume the risk of installing something, then it is indeed a little more risky. Something Apple should try to alleviate like they do on the Mac.

@agentjacob @marcoarment Do you buy everything direct? 30% is a bargain.

@myrmidon @marcoarment For Software - yes, if I have the opportunity I do. That has typically been a possibility since the 90’s with a lot of software.
If 30% were a bargain, you’d see developers jumping for joy at the opportunity. But sadly for them - they would like a little of the profit for themselves too. Fair enough I’d say.
The 30% (I know it’s 15% in a lot of cases) is essentially a payment and hosting fee, and it’s a little high.

@agentjacob @marcoarment And 40% (without sales tax) for Air Jordan? (that Nike doesn’t discount if you buy direct!)

@myrmidon @marcoarment physical goods are not comparable. Find another hill to die on.

@agentjacob @marcoarment you are right: you never find exactly what you need, the sales person is grumpy and the service after the sale is inexistant (But in some store which are the exception.) Direct hasn’t made price go down…

@myrmidon @marcoarment You are free to find those Air Jordans on sale in another store though. So competition among retailers certainly has made the price go down.

@agentjacob @marcoarment Not really, small volumes, raffles, second market sky high 😵‍💫

@myrmidon @marcoarment Funny, seems all those things have very little to do with software sales. It’s almost as if the comparison to something that is limited by physical production is a little disingenuous.

@agentjacob @marcoarment I just meant that they also fight against lower margins. That’s fair.
BTW, I love chaos so I’m all for side-loading even if I’ll advise anyone around me against it.