Mastodawn

@ogili That was a Wurzels album ...
Hmmm. Wonder of those have ever been picked for #ListeningClub - or would that result in a return visit to the naughty step, like DuranGate?

@SimonLandmine Durangate? #ListeningClub

@AqiDraco Some time back, I picked what is generally reckoned to be among the world's worst albums - 'Thank You', a covers album by Duran Duran. Visit it at your peril. #ListeningClub

@SimonLandmine ok, I will check it out. Why did you choose it? #ListeningClub

@AqiDraco There were a number of reasons - among them the fact that I'm rather fond of covers albums, and that a previous album I really like had received a somewhat dismissive reaction from folk.
Some of the tracks that Duran Duran decided to cover on the album were quite ... interesting choices.
If I've still got the HearThis link for it, I'll pass it on.

@SimonLandmine isn’t that what #ListeningClub is all about. You choose something to share together with all of us listening to it at the same time… good or bad is really all about personal music taste. The act of intent focused shared listening in itself is a big part of the joy here. I found the album on Spotify.

@AqiDraco @SimonLandmine gotta say I disagree that 'good or bad' is just a matter of personal taste. Whether you like a particular piece of music is a matter of taste, but there are ways of deciding whether it is good or bad. There is a canon. What's in that might change over time but it exists outside of yours or my personal taste #ListeningClub #PhilosophyClub

Aquiel ‘Aqi’ Draco

@corin_ja @SimonLandmine assigning good or bad is always a subjective determination. There may be influences to that regarding decade, genre, musicability etc. In the end, it is always dependent on human fallibility what shapes their musical taste. I can’t stand certain music, I love others. It had little to do with objective reasons. #ListeningClub

@AqiDraco @SimonLandmine yeah as I said, I think you're mistaking what you find to your taste or not with what is good or bad. There are evidence-based criteria for deciding what's good or bad in aesthetics as well as ethics. One of the fundamental problems humanity has right now is a lack of education on how to apply evidence to reason about qualities across many domains of knowledge #ListeningClub #PhilosophyClub

Dan Kletter 🥑Apr 16, 2023

@corin_ja @AqiDraco @SimonLandmine #ListeningClub It’s easier to judge architecture as good or bad than music.

@soundclamp @corin_ja @AqiDraco Is the building still standing? 😄
#ListeningClub

@soundclamp @corin_ja @SimonLandmine we are talking about personal taste here not if a building has sound bones. But even in architecture I can have a liking for say Brutalism and others just hate the look of it, independent how well it is build for its time. I am no longer sure what we are really debating about. #ListeningClub

@AqiDraco @soundclamp @SimonLandmine apologies, maybe I shouldn't have said I disagree earlier. It's annoying when one feels contradicted on the internet, I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable so sorry if that's what's happening.

#ListeningClub

@corin_ja @soundclamp @SimonLandmine you can say and disagree to what you want. I have no problem with it or you. The difficulty of debating anything online is the lack of inflection or visual cues. Your last other post made your standpoint more clear to me so I do have a rebuttal to it ;)

@corin_ja @SimonLandmine for me there is no pure objectivity. How someone senses something, be it research or determining something they find pleasing or displeasing has always an individual slant, an individual choice to look at or experiences something under certain criteria which also include mood. Some times I love Metal, other times I rather listen to Trip Hop. I find it foolish to proclaim pure objectivity. There is rather objectified subjectivity where one is aware of one’s subjective influencers rather than deny them to exist. So yes, I can very well proclaim for myself that I find something good or bad. And for the next person my good could be their bad and vice versa. #ListeningClub

@AqiDraco @SimonLandmine that's cool, I'm not saying you're wrong to hold this view.

But my view is that there is a distinction between taste (subjective judgement) and quality (objective properties). In music, consider the Beatles. You may or may not find them to your taste. But to deny the quality (goodness) of their music would be counter to the appraisals of musicologists, composers, songwriters, charts etc. It could be that all thos people are wrong, but is that likely? #ListeningClub

@corin_ja @SimonLandmine I would be rather careful with a quantity determining quality argument. There are past and present examples where the masses determining good or bad has not been of quality. There are 1,4 + billion Chinese who live in a communist state. So they would say that communism is good. Does that mean the whole world needs to find communism good?

@AqiDraco @SimonLandmine ok. So, I am not arguing that quantity-of-approbation equals quality. It can be an indicator but is not necessary or sufficient. What I am arguing is that if we look at, say, the evidence musicologists have used to show the quality of the Beatles’ music we can see the way to an objective appraisal. Eg key changes, complementary chords, lyrical imagery, 1/2