Robert ReichThe NRA buys off Congress. No action on guns.
The oil industry buys off Congress. No action on climate.
Insurance companies buy off Congress. No action on health care.
The list goes on...
Money in politics is the root of our dysfunction.
nedhamson@rbreich partly but voters and those who don’t bother to vote give their power away - if you want better government … take it with your vote!
Mad Dog Ace Run@nedhamson
You never listened to George Carlin have you? The problem is not that people don't vote. The problem is that the system is so corrupt and run by money that our choices are terrible. I actually applaud those who do not vote. Especially in a presidential election where a person's vote may not even count.
You never listened to George Carlin have you? The problem is not that people don't vote. The problem is that the system is so corrupt and run by money that our choices are terrible. I actually applaud those who do not vote. Especially in a presidential election where a person's vote may not even count.
@Bringiton I have fallowed Carlin for years when he was with us and saw one of his shows. The people who don’t vote elect people like Trump by not voting.
@nedhamson
That is actually not true.
Donnie was only "elected" because of the "electoral college". He lost to Hillary by some 3 million votes, which were then ignored so that they could declare him the winner.
If the voice of the people actually mattered then Donnie would have never been in office. We need to change how we vote for president. We no longer have slavery so why do we have rules for voting for a president that came from slavery times?
@Bringiton Electoral College is an anchor around our necks for sure. If there had been more votes for Clinton in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Florida, Trump would have never been elected - meaning that if a good number of those who did not bother to vote in those states had voted... It would have been President Clinton.
@nedhamson
So it only matters what certain people in certain states do. That is a corrupt system. I have not voted in the presidential election once in the past twenty years and not once has my vote mattered at all. One person should equal one vote and where you live should not matter. Also why should my vote be tied to others in my state? The EC is racist since it favors rural white voters over minorities who live in cities. I will not be voting for president in 2024 and it won't matter again.
So it only matters what certain people in certain states do. That is a corrupt system. I have not voted in the presidential election once in the past twenty years and not once has my vote mattered at all. One person should equal one vote and where you live should not matter. Also why should my vote be tied to others in my state? The EC is racist since it favors rural white voters over minorities who live in cities. I will not be voting for president in 2024 and it won't matter again.
@Bringiton not voting matters under any system. I agree it should just be one vote, one person. The system can only get to being fair if people elect representatives who will vote to change the system, I think.
@nedhamson
Do you realize what it would take to get rid of the EC? It is in the Constitution so that would need to be changed. Frankly I think that they would find the EC to be unconstitutional based on the Equal Protection Clause. There is definitely an inherent contradiction in the Constitution.
Once again, I will say it again. I have not voted in a presidential election once in the past twenty years and it has not mattered because of the system. If we want democracy we need to demand it!
Grassroots Joe@Bringiton @nedhamson
We don't have to get rid of the EC to have the equivalent of a popular vote for President. It's still hard, but far from impossible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
In the meantime, any argument against voting, however "legitimate" makes it harder to get high potential & high value voters to vote in critical congressional/state/local elections & in battleground states. It's not how we win & overturn Citizens United.
We don't have to get rid of the EC to have the equivalent of a popular vote for President. It's still hard, but far from impossible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
In the meantime, any argument against voting, however "legitimate" makes it harder to get high potential & high value voters to vote in critical congressional/state/local elections & in battleground states. It's not how we win & overturn Citizens United.
@joeinwynnewood I am fully aware of the National Popular Vote initiative. A sort of way around the vestige of slavery known as the "electoral college".
I also agree that it is alright to vote in local, state and congressional elections. But that does not get the corrupt money element out of politics. The problem as I see it is that we continue to pay lip service to democracy while not really supporting actual democracy. The system needs to change and not by just a little.
Public funding...
@Bringiton
Great.
Not just sort of a way, a viable way that's being actively worked & is making progress.
It's not just "alright" to vote in other elections, it's really important to our day-to-day lives & our collective future. In particular, it's local/county/state officials who've started the public funding ball rolling and can speed it along.
It's hard enough to get people to vote in down ballot races when they come out to vote for president. Discouraging any voting is supremely unhelpful.
@joeinwynnewood
So you believe that people should participate in an election where rural white people have more voting power than urban minorities? You believe in participating in elections where your vote may not even count? I disagree because then we just get more of the same.
Presidential elections are a joke when the loser is declared the winner. It makes no sense at all.
People need to make up their own minds on voting and what elections they want to participate in. That is their right.
@Bringiton
You get the change you work for. All I hear you saying is someone else hasn't already fixed the problem for you so why bother.
I'm damn well sure that's not what Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Harriet Tubman, Ida B. Wells, Fannie Lou Hamer, James Baldwin, John Lewis, Rosa Parks, MLK and thousands of people who fought for civil rights at great personal peril thought.
You get the change you work for. All I hear you saying is someone else hasn't already fixed the problem for you so why bother.
I'm damn well sure that's not what Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Harriet Tubman, Ida B. Wells, Fannie Lou Hamer, James Baldwin, John Lewis, Rosa Parks, MLK and thousands of people who fought for civil rights at great personal peril thought.
@joeinwynnewood
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.
@joeinwynnewood
I don't see much progress on getting rid of the "electoral college", mainly because those people who benefit from it constantly make excuses for it. Heard them way too many times. And they will never admit that the EC came from slavery. The EC is basically reverse affirmative action at this point in time. It gives white people more voting power and that is exactly the reason that Donnie "won", even though he got 3 million less votes than Hillary.
It's called principles...
@Bringiton
You'll see the progress you work on.
You'll see the progress you work on.
@joeinwynnewood
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.
@nedhamson
The system stinks and is corrupt. The system will only change when we demand real change like getting the money out of politics.
The system stinks and is corrupt. The system will only change when we demand real change like getting the money out of politics.
Cynthia Morse Linton@Bringiton @nedhamson I agree that the EC is by its nature racist and should be removed. And I can’t tell people that voting is or is not the way to go…in the past. But in local and state votes, the differences are getting smaller and smaller. Your vote does count there, even if you lose. As for the federal, I get it. But my vote is my one voice and I will be damned if they will take that one voice from me.