Mastodawn

This is for #trans people only!

Do you think it is #transphobic to not want to date trans people?

There is an accompanying poll for non-trans people that this poll is in reply to.

Please #boost so that I can have a larger sample size than I might otherwise get.

Boost the other poll too if you can.

#poll

Yes

56.2%

No

32%

No if there's no bottom surgery

4.3%

No if you want to have kids

7.6%

Poll ended at Mar 27, 2023 at 2:14pm.

Slightly modified the words for better clarity. Sorry to the 5 people who already voted but I hope you got where I was going to begin with.

TBH now that I'm this far into it I wish I could just do this as a proper polling form so that I could offer better clarification and more expansive options in order to get better quality data.

BTW: This is meant to be about dating trans people as a group, not individual trans persons. I've seen enough confusion on this

Maddie ♾️Mar 21, 2023

I feel bad for admitting this but the polls got so much feedback that I've just decided it's best not to reply to anyone. If any of you are seeing this cause I never got back to you. Don't worry. I'm just very... very socially anxious.

When this is over, next week I plan on putting together the results and breaking them down for people to see.

Mind you the polls are imperfect thanks in part to a lot of misunderstandings. My wording could have been better.

Maddie ♾️Mar 21, 2023

I really wish I could do this over again with a proper form so that I could add more clarifying statements, provide more options, and see if I could find a way to break things down into other metrics such as age.

I do think something like that would also influence people's choices in a way that I don't think this adequately does. I doubt I would be able to get the traction for something that links off fedi to this degree

https://mastodon.social/@Moondancer0X/110096537794598107

Maddie ♾️Mar 27, 2023

I made a thread talking about the results. If anyone's curious.

It's a bit rambly tho. Why be concise when you can write an essay? That's my motto.

mergerg Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X yeah I was about to clarify my answer this way too, because I feel like many cis people will look at the majority "yes" and go "ah, they think it's transphobic that I don't want to date them specifically"

f00f/eris/continuum/etc Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X hmm I am actually unsure about this. I don't think it is any kind of wrong to "not date" anyone, except perhaps that it hurts the person refusing. On the other hand, when a cis person says "I don't date trans people", I am immediately suspicious. On the other other hand, relationships and attraction are complicated, and there are any number of genuine reasons that could end up excluding most trans people.

Autoerotic Defenestration Mar 20, 2023

@f00fc7c8 @Moondancer0X I've been wondering about that...

Personally, I can't imagine having sex with a person with a vagina. Complete turn-off.

But a woman with a penis would probably be someone I'd date (haven't tried it yet).

So I might end up rejecting trans guys because of their vagina, which might look like transphobia?

(don't get me started on the hypothetical of a theoretical longterm partner transitioning and suddenly having a vagina. I honestly don't know about that scenario)

Fripi (DECT 3034)Mar 27, 2023

@danielaKay
For me the transphobic part starts when you exclude to date trans people. We all are attracted to different things, that's okay. But the moment the being trans part is the problem, that's the moment it becomes transphobic.
@f00fc7c8 @Moondancer0X

Rose (krrr...)Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X

Saying "I don't want to date someone who can't have kids" isn't transphobic. Saying "I don't want to date that translady because I know she can't have kids" is.

Saying "I'm attracted to [x] bottom equipment" isn't transphobic. Saying "I need to inspect your equipment before I date you because I only date trans women with bottom surgery is."

Saying "I'm not attracted to you" isn't transphobic. Saying "I'm not attracted to Transpeople" is.

So yes it is transphobic to not want to date trans people.

Gingerale Mar 27, 2023

@Sjkiinay @Moondancer0X so does not feeling attracted to guys or white girls make me a selfsexist/selfracist? I still treat guys as equals even though i would not date a guy. And my gay friends do respect and tolerate my heterosexuality and dont blame me for not wanting to date then... and i think treating each other as equals is the key requirement for transequality and all... no dating implied...

Ainebet Mar 27, 2023

@Sjkiinay @Moondancer0X well said.

Jocelynephiliac

@Moondancer0X if it is a blanket refusal purely because the person is trans, ignoring everything about that individual person, then yes, that is transphobic.

Alka Mar 20, 2023

@twipped @Moondancer0X but people have sexual preferences so they don't need to justify it. Just like how some people find themselves more sexually attracted to certain races, it's not racist, and in this case it is not transphobic. It is sexual preference.

Sakti

@Moondancer0X @twipped Yes agreed, if someone said 'I don't date black people because they're black' then 'are they racist' should be an easy question to answer

Ruth O’Day Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X
@Subrote
What would be interesting would be to see another option for “Yes if there’s no bottom surgery.”

The reality is that trans porn is, I believe, pre-op/non-op trans.

And from experience, I have had a guy approach me online and after answering his first question to confirm that I have had surgery, he backed out.

Good luck to both of us in our senior year!

maddie (MOVED!)

@Moondancer0X do you mean it's transphobic if you're not dating a trans person, or it's transphobic if you aren't attracted to trans people?

@mjdxp Transphobic if you would not date a trans person.

I don't see an issue if you're not dating a trans person. Not everyone can be trans.

arihi

:ruby_happy:Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X everyone has their own preferences so i don't see an issue in not dating someone with a trait you're not attracted to

grillchen Mar 21, 2023

@arh @Moondancer0X yeah but if my brain doesnt parse a trans person as dateable thats fine. but if i were attracted to someone, them being trans wouldnt be a dealbreaker.

grillchen Mar 21, 2023

@arh @Moondancer0X im very comfortable with my (hetero-)sexuality and if i were attracted to a man i would date him.

ruling it out just because "im straight duh" would just mean being very unhappy if it happens

arihi

:ruby_happy:Mar 21, 2023

@grillchen @Moondancer0X yeah of course, i agree. there's often more to people being attracted to other people. you can't really make someone attracted to the other person if they don't feel that way though.

Summer Lane Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X the percentages aren’t quite adding up, lol edit: I refreshed and now they are correct

@StephAnne YOU'VE BROKEN IT!

Also joking aside, interesting to see the difference for numbers between instances.

Tattie (old account)Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X it's up to you if you want to have sex only with someone with particular genitals. It's up to you if you want to have sex only with someone you can procreate with. It's up to you if you want to have sex only with someone who meets your personal judgment of "fem enough" or "masc enough".

Thinking that you can predict any of the above *only* on whether somebody is trans or cis is, yes, transphobic.

Tattie (old account)Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X additionally, because not enough people are willing to go here: *you are allowed to turn down sex with someone even if your reasons are transphobic in nature*. Just accept that that's on you, and don't project it onto trans people themselves. "No" is your complete sentence here, no reason to show your working, thanks.

Nicky Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X I am confused by the intent of this question. It's fine for anyone to refuse to date anyone. Nobody should ever be forced to date someone else.

Is transphobia at work if someone refuses to even consider dating any trans people? Yes, because they are dismissing a whole group as potential partners based on a shared characteristic.

Is transphobia at work if someone refuses to date a specific trans person? Maybe. It depends.

Your question doesn't make it clear which you're asking.

@shanaqui I am not talking about whether or not it is transphobic to not want to date individual trans people. I am talking about trans people as a group.

Nicky Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Alrighty, answered. Reading the other replies, I think you're going to have trouble getting any useful data from the poll, since other people have the same question/commentary. 😅

Winifred Yost-Zahn 🏳️‍⚧️😸Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X I feel like if it’s a blanket “any and all trans people” then it’s at least a little transphobic. But not wanting to date a particular trans person for any variety of reasons besides that is not

StrawberryWaffle Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X
This question is like my burrito from Taco Bell.
Loaded.

Kay Elúvian Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X You can be into/not into a person based on physical aspects and that’s fine (eg you’re not attracted to tall people or you are attracted to trans-femme people). You’re into who you’re into.

That’s a different proposition from not liking someone because of a characteristic of their physical history. It’s like saying “I only date black (not mixed race) people”. Or “only someone who used to be fat”.

One is about your choices, the other is nonsensical gatekeeping.

Kay Elúvian Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X a person can be black and still mixed race. A person can be slim now without having been heavier before. A trans person can be, in all reasonable respects, their correct gender. To refuse to date them because of them not being ‘proper’ (whatever that is) is just discrimination based on arbitrary rules.

However even then, nobody should be forced to date anyone (or not date anyone) no matter how stupid their reason.

Kay Elúvian Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Personally I’d say wanting to have your own biological children is a fair reason (depending on the trans person you’re speaking to, they may be able to have kids). Not being attracted to one-or-the-other set of junk is a fair reason, but if a trans person otherwise ticks all your boxes and someone won’t date them just because they’re trans then I think it’s fair game to say they’re a gnarly person.

I’m afraid I don’t see that option on your poll 🤣

Cayla Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X.
If the only reason is because they are trans yeah

Elenna Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X if the only reason for not dating them is them being trans? Yeah, that's transphobia. I don't see how one would argue otherwise.

Ann Sutton Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X I said yes but with the understanding that the person is applying this as an absolute rule, like saying you’d never date a black person or something. We’re all attracted or not to various people for various reasons, and you might find yourself attracted to a person you’re normally not into, but saying you’d never do it upfront seems different?

Also, having kids seems like a separate issue—the trans person may still be capable. And a cis person might not. 🤷‍♀️

🍁Maple🍁Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X

I'm only interested in transpeople (t4t gay). It is weird that the lack of attraction would be considered a phobia in this case, but not for my not being interested in cis.

Serena is moving to @[email protected]Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X I voted No, because I think it's valid if someone does not want to get into a serious relationship based on what they have, but if it's specifically based on gender identity then that's a different, worse story.

Alexis Sara Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X the last option is so funny cuz, the only way to have bio kids of both parties kids if your gay is if one is trans. Like that one has a major hetero assumption.

Leah Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X if it's just because they are trans, yes. Because trans people come with all possible personalities and bodies, so there is no non transmisic reason for this in my opinion.

It's the same like it is racist to say I don't date Asian people or people of color just because of that.

Elisa Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X @leah imho, it’s okay to not date a person, cause of their genital configuration, e.g. a friend of mine, who would describe himself as gay, refused to date a transmasc(preop) person in the past, but would date a transfem(preop) person, cause he really just can deal with a penis down there…
And if you argue like that, it’s not transphobic, in the same way it’s not phobic to just date people with a certain hair color…

Elisa Mar 21, 2023

@Moondancer0X @leah if you refuse to date them cause of their transness it definitely is…

Jorge Soares Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X You cannot choose who you feel attracted to, life would be a lot simpler if we could, so I have a hard time choosing "Yes". I would not exclude dating someone just because they're trans, as long as there was physical and emotional attraction its worth a shot and I do feel that flat out excluding trans people entirely from the dating pool may be considered transphobic, but even with this in mind is hard to vote, all people are different and our freedom to love whoever we want (being consensual off course) without coercion is something that we have not yet fully conquered. The last option doesn't make a lot of sense, unless a cis person already has kids one cannot evaluate their fertility, it's not like people are doing fertility tests on the first dates.

krimss Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Well it really depends. If you like a trans person but don't date them purely because they're trans I'd consider it transphobic, and with the wanting kids, I guess it would only be transphobic if you'd date an infertile cis person but not a trans person for the same reason. But I'd still find it weird to not date someome purely because you can't have kids with them, not up to me to decide though. There's much more questions to further develop on this but basically just that.

GuerillaGrue Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X As a transperson who answered (in the trans-only poll, though I don't see why the separation was really necessary outside interesting metrics,) no, I don't think that it's inherently -- INHERENTLY -- transphobic for someone not to want to date a transperson.

Ultimately, so long as you don't object to us being allowed to exist or OTHERS dating us, it's no different than, say, not finding redheads attractive, or not wanting to date astronauts, or any other silly bias. It's fine.

Wayne Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X I voted yes, but it shows I voted no. I find that often happens with polls on the app.

Zach Taffet

@Moondancer0X If your reason for not dating someone is because they are trans, then yes, I would consider that transphobic.

⁂Krafty⁂ #NoKings Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X why would it be?

MOVED TO PLUSH.CITY Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X depends on the reasons behind. if they just not attracted to me, fine. but if they purposefully avoid trans people for no reason, this shit is really suspicious

[MESSAGE ME TO FOLLOW] green Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X it is not inherently anything-phobic to not want to date anyone. ace/aro-spec people are not phobic, and it's really gross to them to pigeonhole any kind of general disinterest in dating as any kind of general "-phobia." also, given that most people are inclined or conditioned towards monogamy, most people would find it impossible to "complete the set" of dating people in various identity brackets so they could be considered inclusive/intersectional anyway. ALSO also, dating people *only because* they fit into a specific identity bracket and *not* because, y'know, you like them and want to date them as a person, is in itself really gross.

dragonfrog Mar 20, 2023

@troodon @Moondancer0X

I think if the answer is "I'm already dating one person monogamously therefore I don't want to date anyone of any gender" that's kind of answering a different question.

Jesse Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Wish this of all polls had a "not voting just show me the results option." Because I don't think there's a simple answer but I'm curious what other people think. I guess I just need to be patient.

@misc I really hope at some point there's just a built in "show me the results" option. I've skipped out on several polls for that reason. I'm not sure why that isn't a thing.

Jesse Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Agreed. And in lieu of a vote I guess my general take is that no one should be shamed or pressured about what they are or aren't attracted to, but everyone should be willing to get introspective about their preferences. Also simple labels like "gay" or "straight" are increasingly inadequate to our evolving understanding of gender and sexuality.

Jesse Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Also if you don't want to date trans people a priori I suppose that is transphobic by definition, but maybe not with the same moral charge as expressing transphobia in other ways. As with racism, it helps if we acknowledge that transphobia is a thing no one is immune to, not just a mark of shame to sort the good people from the bad.

Worthülse Mar 20, 2023

@Moondancer0X Is it misogynous not to date women?