DominusMar 14, 2023
Michael Downey 🧢

Dear devs,

It's NEVER ok to lock people out of a webapp because their User-Agent doesn't match your predefined list. 😡

Especially webapps they need to manage their healthcare.

(I am in fact using one of the browsers on this list, your code just isn't able to tell.)

 Please boost for basic education.

#webdev

Mar 13, 2023 at 3:00pmWeb
Show threadkitsuneMar 13, 2023
@downey instead of flat out locking people out, it should be standard to instead have "It appears you're using an unsupported browser, use firefox chrome blah blah blah, click here to proceed anyway, some elements may not appear or work correctly"
Show threadMichael Downey 🧢Mar 13, 2023

@kitsune

💯

I don't mind a disclaimer or reminder.

But this is an anti-pattern I've seen start to creep up on several web sites lately.

Show threadAmelia Bjornsdottir (she, they, he)Mar 13, 2023
@downey @kitsune Reminds me of my childhood
Show threadvascorsdJul 23, 2023
@amelia @downey @kitsune good old days of sites optimized for 1024x768 and internet explorer.
Show threadSimonSep 6, 2023
@downey @kitsune pretty sure an NZ health insurance provider was blocking any user agent it identified as coming from a Linux operating system because only hackers use Linux.
Show threadAaronDec 13, 2023
@iokiwi @downey @kitsune LOL That's some amazing security!
Show threadBrett Sheffield (he/him)Mar 13, 2023
@kitsune @downey A competent web dev would test for browser features. There is never a good reason to look at the User-Agent string.
Show threadHannekeMar 13, 2023
@dentangle @kitsune @downey A competent dev *with enough budget*. But they should never lock one out though.
Show threadDanMar 13, 2023

@dentangle @kitsune @downey

Although warning if they are using ie7 or earlier that you can't guarantee that your layout isn't completely janky on browsers that are not standards compliant is fine

Show threadIrinaJul 22, 2023
@dentangle @kitsune @downey I learned to hack the User-Agent string in the late 1990s when I got locked out of websites for not using IE. (Which I couldn't. Because Linux.)
Show threadHannekeMar 13, 2023
@kitsune @downey 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Show threadNorman WilsonJul 21, 2023
@kitsune @downey If their elements won't work in my browser because they didn't stay within the HTML standard, the problem is not my browser but their competence.
Show threadIzzyMar 13, 2023

@downey Especially "fun" if you update your router to the latest firmware – and it comes back online with such a "friendly hint" without any chance for you to get in again. Just tested for you…

(luckily I use a 5-browser-concept so I was able to get in with one of the others)

What can be so difficult with a simple web interface that it needs a specific browser?

Show threadChrisMar 13, 2023

@IzzyOnDroid @downey Just a heads-up; You can easily fake your user agent via extensions (to the point of pressing a button, followed by the browser).

There isn't a whole lot of things that aren't done easier in-browser, compared to using multiple ones nowadays.

Show threadIzzyMar 13, 2023

@christopherklay you can and I can, and I bet @downey can as well. But many users are simply lost at that point. Furthermore, if faking the agent does the trick, the blocker was entirely unnecessary.

And as for "using multiple ones": I do that for multiple reasons. One of them is "compartments" (yes I know "container tabs", but what's in different browsers is an entirely different beast).

Show threadChrisMar 13, 2023

@IzzyOnDroid @downey I completely agree that the blocker is pointless to begin with.

My point is mostly that simply having a user agent switcher installed that solves any of these issues down the line, is the easier solution compared to opening the page in a different browser every time it happens.

After all, the majority of people isn't running multiple ones, or is even logged in (if needed) in a second one.

Show threadHomemadeAdvancedMar 13, 2023
@IzzyOnDroid
Which Browsers do you recommend?
I use Librewolf, Vivaldi, Ungoogled Chromium and Tor.
Show threadGuy MontagMar 14, 2023
@RealMo if I just want to read text, like in an article, I open it in Emacs's Eww mode. I avoid all the garbage and distractions, and can manipulate it however I like.
Show threadMysteriousBenjiMar 14, 2023
@christopherklay @IzzyOnDroid @downey yeah. Although the trouble is that the people who probably have the greatest need of sites like this and also have a high likelihood of running “Unsupported” browsers probably aren’t the kind to poke around the dev menu
Show threadJeremy ListDec 11, 2023
@christopherklay @IzzyOnDroid @downey I found on Haiku OS I need to have every compatible browser installed because each one actually is missing a few implementations of some standards. Fortunately every website I use works on at least one of them.
Show threadNiclas HedhmanMar 13, 2023
@downey I have also recently seen being refused because my browser blocks advertisements.
Show threadMJ RayMar 13, 2023
@niclas @downey from a medical site? That must breach medical ethics, as I bet it blocks some screen readers.
Show threadAmelia Bjornsdottir (she, they, he)Mar 13, 2023
@downey I'm probably gonna experience this a bit by running NetSurf on my new thinkpad
Show threadAlex VolkovMar 13, 2023
I too, saw one of these warnings recently. I hoped the whole “best viewed with Internet Explorer” thing would die forever, but it keeps coming back.
Show threadAsta McCarthyMar 13, 2023
@downey "our website strickly follows well established webstandards, therefore we support any browser you like" should indeed be the proper atitude to webdevelopment.
Show threadMichael Downey 🧢Mar 13, 2023
@AstaMcCarthy
Show thread(((o))) Acoustic MirrorMar 14, 2023
@downey Which one is the Any Browser? @AstaMcCarthy
Show threadAsta McCarthyMar 14, 2023
@acousticmirror @downey the one that is booted by pressing the any-key
Show threaddas-gMar 15, 2023
@AstaMcCarthy @downey "Our website strictly follows well established web standards, therefore we support any browser that also strictly follows well established web standards." might be a tad more realistically achievable.
Show threadrag. Gustavino BevilacquaJul 22, 2023

@AstaMcCarthy @downey

Does books like "Moby Dick" or "Tom Sawyer" (oh, I almost forgot: the Bible, too!) communicate less things if read in plain text mode?

Show threadYuki "neige d'aout" Hazuki 膤 ❄️ ​Mar 13, 2023

@downey This is exactly why every decent browser claim they're Mozilla since the 90s and everyone keeps adding and spoofing each other

but no, tech support don't want to tell a user with a browser they don't know how to clear their cache even though it tells them it works exactly like Google Chrome, with the side effect they ruin it for everyone who legitimately want to use the user-agent string, starting a cat and mouse game with browser vendors who want their browser to be as accessible as any major one

Show threadKeith J GrantMar 13, 2023

@downey Most weeks I have to check the city website to see if it's a recycle pickup week... I spent the first five seconds looking at a loading spinner that says "Checking your browser..."

What's to check!? I literally just need to you show me an "A" or a "B"

Show threadSteven MolnarMar 13, 2023
@keithjgrant @downey They can also make it very difficult to pay a utility bill. What's the worst that could happen? Someone hacks my account and pays my bill? I'm trying to give them money, not take it.
Show threadclacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Mar 14, 2023
@keithjgrant @downey "prepare to fast forward"

farside.link/invidious/watch?v…

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UCAJw…
Show threadFrost「｜霜の狼｜人面獣心」Jul 22, 2023
@keithjgrant @downey oh /that/ one is probably Cloudflare doing... whatever shit it is they pull.
Show threadUrsidinoj/The BjornsdottirsJul 22, 2023
@keithjgrant @downey Society will collapse in part due to critically excessive levels of administration.
Show thread#1 lighttpd fanDec 11, 2023
@keithjgrant @downey cloudflare under-attack mode, or tls fingerprinting if you're faking your user agent
Show threadnhOmegaMar 13, 2023

@downey even worse: This website only works in Chrome.

Can we get rid of this stupidity.

And yes user-agent is the worst possible way to check what someone is using.

If you need a specific feature - check for that feature and then inform the person WHY a different browser might be needed.

Show threadYancy BurnsMar 14, 2023
@downey @ruskie Please use ie6, as your browser doesn’t support Flash player 4.
Show threadPurplepegasusMar 14, 2023
@ruskie @downey Exactly! I thought good web development meant you were supposed to make things more accessible, not less!
Show threadjoeMar 13, 2023
@downey I don't think the devs made this decision.
Show threadHollisMar 13, 2023
@Smokinjoe Thank you. Former healthcare webdev. Former. There are ...reasons.
Show threadTröglödÿtMar 13, 2023

@Smokinjoe

'i just followed orders' isn't the nice excuse you expect it to be

@downey

Show threadjoeMar 13, 2023
@troglodyt @downey Are you seriously comparing an engineer listening to their manager to literal fucking genocide?
Show threadTröglödÿtMar 13, 2023

@Smokinjoe

no, but obviously you find the principle behind your suggestion quite distasteful in light of modern history

maybe remove the suggestion then

@downey

Show threadMichael Downey 🧢Mar 13, 2023

@troglodyt @Smokinjoe

Stop it. Both of you.

Show threadjoeMar 13, 2023
@downey @troglodyt I'd be more than happy to - not sure *where* that conversation was supposed to go.
Show threadTröglödÿtMar 14, 2023

@Smokinjoe

probably to you explaining whether you'd go nuremberg trials on facebook employees facilitating genocidal processes in myanmar

Show threadjoeMar 14, 2023
@troglodyt Very normal post you got there
Show threadMOVED TO @[email protected] (Julia )Mar 13, 2023
@downey I make one exception, which is when the user agent matches microsoft internet explorer
Show threadRommelRicoMar 13, 2023
@downey Happens to me sometimes with Firefox Developer Edition.
Show threadinfinite_loopyMar 13, 2023
@downey My trash company blocks me from paying my bill because I use firefox ESR, which reports a version number they don't like. They refuse to change it despite their insistence that they would "pass on this feedback to the IT team"
Show threadKevin RussellMar 13, 2023

@downey

Devs do as they are told, 50 years now.
Lotus 123 was the revolution in apps, bringing computing to any business.

It wasnt Microsoft's, so the rule for DOS devs was made. The Corporate app. rule.

Show threadLutruloMar 13, 2023
@downey Web devs on their way to making an almost universally cross-platform medium arbitrarily locked down:
Show threadvandysMar 13, 2023
@downey And web devs, PLEASE don't grab at every shiny new thing and stuff it into your web site. I know it makes you feel cool, but we're all getting tired of the frenzied death march into bleeding edge browser quality.
Show threadosfanbuff63Mar 13, 2023

@downey Not supporting super old browsers is one thing, totally blocking User-Agents that don't meet a certain list is another...

hey at least they list firefox 

Show threadMaybeMyMonkeysMar 13, 2023
@downey reminds me when a project manager wanted to know why we couldn’t just make our customers use Internet Explorer.
Show threadWilliam ConnerMar 13, 2023
@downey I feel your pain. My bank has continuing issues with on line bill pay using one of the browsers they claim to support.
Show threadAtle 🧇🧅Mar 13, 2023
@downey every time I see these I remember that I spent hours getting stuff to work in ie6. If I could get a webpage to work in ie6, webdevs of today can make their crap work in all chrome variations + Firefox