Mar 7, 2023
imagine if employers had to pay for commute time. they'd figure out really fuckin fast how many jobs can be done remotely.
Show threadmaloki 🍍Mar 7, 2023

@sayyid_qishta I've been thinking about the concept of paying for what it actually costs people to work. (as in increase where necessary etc).

So are you disabled? You get paid more.
Do you need to commute? You get paid more.
etc etc etc. (It's not a compelte thought for fairly obvious reasons, so the examples are very vague and general)

Show threadScott M. Mar 8, 2023
@maloki @sayyid_qishta there'd have to be strict guidelines on the commute thing as there are a lot of societal costs to people choosing to live far away from their work (pollution including CO2, congestion, etc). It would be unfair to those who try to reduce their externalities.
Show threadjnbhlrMar 8, 2023
@apukwa @maloki @sayyid_qishta absolutely. Commuting involves a fair amount of free choice. Being disabled isn't a choice. So the commute should be treated the same as living costlier but closer to work: A lifestyle choice. Governments shouldn't subsidise commuting not just because it's bad for people, economy and environment, but also because it's just unfair.
Show threadmaloki 🍍Mar 8, 2023

@jnbhlr @apukwa saying that commuting is a lifestyle choice is one hell of a take in the capitalist hellscape we're living in.

@sayyid_qishta

Show threadJosephine RobertsonMar 9, 2023
@maloki @jnbhlr @apukwa @sayyid_qishta Right? The city we live in there is *no way* to live in the city center unless you make a very, very good wage. Commuting is the only way the teachers, janitors, cooks, servers, sanitation workers, mail carriers, etc can GET TO WORK. Getting to live near your work is increasingly a privilege.
Show threadjnbhlrMar 9, 2023
@revjorobertson @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta note what I wrote here: https://toot.bike/@jnbhlr/109986846921327684 rephrasing for precision: Commuting in a way that incurs significant (societal) costs is a lifestyle choice, but not necessarily a very free one, especial in the US with their horrible planning. All the teachers etc. still have some choice, e.g. cutting down on floor space to live closer to work for the same cost, or sharing commutes etc.
jnbhlr (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Sorry, writing from Germany here. While we're quite capitalist here as well, some remnants of the social market economy idea (and partially probably just inertia) prevented us from reaching hellscape level.

toot.bike
Show threadjnbhlrMar 9, 2023
@revjorobertson @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta What really would help if e.g. teachers would quit en mass after some NIMBY-decision about not building housing is made. A clear message like "Dear rich white people, if you don't allow for housing we can't afford to educate your kids" might change some peoples minds.
Show threadJosephine RobertsonMar 9, 2023
@jnbhlr @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta And again, for many of those workers quitting would mean homelessness. Just getting a new job in a country with essentially zero worker protections is... well it requires a safety net we often don't have. I work with families w 3 jobs between 2 adults who are *still homeless.* That's our reality here.
Show threadjnbhlrMar 9, 2023
@revjorobertson @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta well if they are already homeless with a job what's the point? I'm afraid I just can't feel the situation you're describing (I guess usa?). Obviously not everyone in the usa can move to portland but I believe there still are places that are a bit more affordable.
Show threadJosephine RobertsonMar 9, 2023

@jnbhlr @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta Portland is NOT affordable.

And what's the POINT? I dunno, being able to feed their kids, pay for medications, keep the health insurance that keeps them alive???

If you aren't from the US tossing out suggestions that assume a robust safety net, legal worker protections, or any of that isn't helping. We're not stupid over here, we're climbing an ENORMOUS hill and dismissing that isn't helping.

Show threadjnbhlrMar 9, 2023
@revjorobertson @maloki @apukwa @sayyid_qishta I'm not dismissing that it's an enormously difficult uphill battle, but if you try your hardest, work 3 jobs between 2 people for a family, and it's still not enough to afford most basic needs like shelter, one needs to consider that some change needs to happen.
Show threadmaloki 🍍Mar 9, 2023
@jnbhlr please for the love of anything that's holy to you, stop. @revjorobertson @apukwa @sayyid_qishta
Show threadjnbhlr
@maloki @revjorobertson I might need to point out again that I'm not a native speaker. I find it difficult to pinpoint what you find so offensive. The scenario 3 jobs with 2 adults and kids and still homeless and needing to commute a lot, feeling like it's an uphill battle sounds so toxic to me that the need for change is obvious. One might bear it for like half a year if it enables clearing debt and starting anew, but any longer and likely bad things will happen making the situation worse.
Mar 10, 2023 at 2:30pmWeb
Show threadjnbhlrMar 10, 2023
@maloki @revjorobertson your car could brake down and cost money you don't have, you might get sick, you might get fired. I'm not intending to imply that it's their fault or that nothing needs to be done on a society level because clearly a lot needs to be changed. And I'm not suggesting that changing something individually would be easy. So if you felt I implied anything of that I apologise for my inprecise language.
Show threadmaloki 🍍Mar 10, 2023

@jnbhlr I just got tired of you not stopping.

The whole initial point was "what does it cost you to work., you should Get paid so it's doable to work on job or fewer hours because the extra costs involved".

But you started with that commuting is a choice, which it's not in in most places.

This last post wasn't horrible or anything, but it was just that you had started with arguing about something and not listening. So I had enough. 🤷‍♀️

Show threadjnbhlrMar 10, 2023
@maloki I was trying to shed some light on the grey areas between "free choice" and "choice with a gun pointed to your head". I perfectly understand that commuting feels unavoidable and can be unavoidable when given certain constraints, so I would claim that I am in fact listening. I try to challenge some assumed constraints though.