Mastodawn

Nature letter by @brembs et al:
"There is now a golden opportunity for every scholarly society to implement a Mastodon instance for anyone interested in their field. If the academic community can create a public resource protected from private interests, it could become a model for bringing the remaining scholarly record — encompassing text, data and code — into the Fediverse."
Paper:
https://zenodo.org/record/7652771#.Y_S6OOzMKhc
Article:
https://www-nature-com.ezproxy.gc.cuny.edu/articles/d41586-023-00486-3
h/t @fediversereport

Mastodon over Mammon - Towards publicly owned scholarly knowledge

Twitter is in turmoil and the scholarly community on the platform is once again starting to migrate. As with the early internet, scholarly organizations are at the forefront of developing and implementing a decentralized alternative to Twitter, Mastodon. Both historically and conceptually, this is not a new situation for the scholarly community. Historically, scholars were forced to leave social media platform FriendFeed after it was bought by Facebook in 2006. Conceptually, the problems associated with public scholarly discourse subjected to the whims of corporate owners are not unlike those of scholarly journals owned by monopolistic corporations: in both cases the perils associated with a public good in private hands are palpable. For both short form (Twitter/Mastodon) and longer form (journals) scholarly discourse, decentralized solutions exist, some of which are already enjoying some institutional support. Here we argue that scholarly organizations, in particular learned societies, are now facing a golden opportunity to rethink their hesitations towards such alternatives and support the migration of the scholarly community from Twitter to Mastodon by hosting Mastodon instances. Demonstrating that the scholarly community is capable of creating a truly public square for scholarly discourse, impervious to private takeover, might renew confidence and inspire the community to focus on analogous solutions for the remaining scholarly record – encompassing text, data and code – to safeguard all publicly owned scholarly knowledge.

Zenodo

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@jeffjarvis @fediversereport Each article like this moves the ball a bit more downfield. I just wish they would stop saying "Mastodon instance" when they should be saying "Fediverse instance." It has a real consequence, because it makes it harder for alternate platforms to gain traction and grow, which puts downward pressure on the healthy competition between them. And that always slows the pace of innovation. And we still need a lot of that.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@jeffjarvis @fediversereport That said, the idea of these micro-interest nodes, is what I have always believed to be the future of knowledge networking, not just social networking.

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

We’ve been here before with RSS where Google Reader came to dominate.

Needless to say it was in the end a very bad result for RSS as a basis for interop.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

Excellent example, Dave. It must still sting. How can we make fedizens understand just how likely that outcome is if we don't pay more attention this time?

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

we're still trying to get over the mess that google left behind, and mastodon is actually helping, but having title-less feeds (something that google reader abhor'd even though it's legal in RSS).

i don't know what to say about activitypub. i don't think you can change anything about the way "fedizens" view things. i think that it's Mastodon they're using is already baked-in.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

Well, you're probably right, but I really hate thinking anything this new is locked into a given path. Especially since the commercial sharks are still swimming around looking for a nice red place to feed, but haven't yet gotten their teeth into it yet. (But not for lack of interest).

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

you're right about the sharks, and get ready for more frustration -- because when a shark comes along with a more reliable or in some measurable way better version of mastodon, a lot of users are going to jump. even just because they like the comfort of a big trusted brand name, no matter how unwise it is to trust that company.

what to do about it? i'll start another message in reply...

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

here's my prescription. off on the side, come up with a very simple format/protocol that accomplishes what AP does. not the whole thing, just a nice subset.

then create a simple open source product, easy to deploy, and easy to use, and attractive in some way and hope it gets traction with some users. enough to attract independent developers to try to create their own stake in that fediverse.

in other words start fresh and fix the core problem with AP.

Connected Places Feb 21, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis Isnt what Christine is doing with Spritely/Goblins an example of this?
https://spritely.institute/

Spritely Institute

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

So, replace, not repair. The designer ideologue in me agrees, but the politician in me is grimacing. I'd think Jack and Rabble certainly agree, too, but do you see AP extensions as insufficient to fix, or at least mitigate some of the weaknesses you see in the AP protocol?

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

you asked my advice, i gave it.

now you're interpreting it and asking me to defend your interpretation. i didn't sign up for that. ;-)

i guess it depends on your goal. my own goal, i love being able to develop without fear of having my work wiped out by some random person in a huge tech company. i've actually accomplished that a couple of times. as i said, i think the train has left the station on AP and Mastodon. ymmv.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport Wasn't asking you to defend anything. Sorry if it read that way. I'm curious as to your thoughts about what AP needs to improve it, if it can be. Some have told me that, like Masto's reliance on Rails/Sidekiq, the fail-points are already foreseen in terms of the federated events it can handle, affordably. Do you see similar time-bombs in AP itself; a likely showstopper as things keeps scaling-up, and that's why you'd ideally replace it, market permitting?

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

i don't even understand the question, i'm wrong guy to ask about that.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew Sorry, I guess I misread you. I thought there were some specific issues that you've already had with AP. Documentation would sure be one you'd get a lot of agreement about :)

Chris Boese Feb 22, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport I like hearing your advice! Great thread! Much food for thought.

Aswath Rao Feb 21, 2023

@davew where can I read on your thoughts on the core prob w AP. TIA

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@aswath @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

not sure what you mean. i've always found the docs for it to be impenetrable, scattered all over creation, with apparently big pieces missing that the masto people have had to invent.

so that's what i see in activitypub. a long way to go before i can implement. and the clock is ticking. every day mastodon becomes more famous and maybe activitypub becomes like "dolby" something good but 99.999% of the people have no clue what it is.

hope that helps.

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @aswath @jeffjarvis @fediversereport
You're validating many of my fears. That any venture with a regressive idea, but the cash to sell it, can keep buying off network influencers in order to make it the network du jour and a Wall Street product.

Look how easily Spoutible got a few hundred thousand sign-ups for an $89 PHP template "it looks like Twitter!" just from a few influencers. The next well-capitalized app or protocol team knows where and how to start. This way be dragons.

Aswath Rao Feb 22, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport Thanks. Got it. You were referencing the fact that the std is sparse on the client to server interface. I think we have talked about it a few weeks back.

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 21, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

also the product has to be gorgeous as example code. when you look at it you think -- "i want to steal that" -- which of course since it's open source is totally okay. ;-)

Shoq Feb 21, 2023

@davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport I just learned all my concept contributions to our CalcKey project have already found their way to some Neo-nazi project that apparently appreciates good stuff when they can steal it (they're ignoring that "source must be published part.").

Kat M. Moss Feb 22, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport I could say a shit ton about titleless RSS feeds. Wordpress needs them by default.

Dave Winer ☕️Feb 22, 2023

@katmmoss @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport

I’ve actually been working with them on that.

Kat M. Moss Feb 22, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport How is it going? I am very interested.

Chris Boese Feb 22, 2023

@shoq @davew @jeffjarvis @fediversereport I agree!

LisPi Feb 21, 2023

@davew @shoq Does anyone even remember Google Reader?

It just looked like some cheap corposcum attempt at #SaaSS-ifying something I could do better locally.

Chris Boese Feb 22, 2023

@davew @shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport Dave, do you remember when they tried to create a distributed FOAF code marker for open source social? It was a few years after you started RadioUserland. I’m trying to convince myself I didn’t dream it.

Alan Martello Feb 22, 2023

@shoq @jeffjarvis @fediversereport The problem with “Fediverse instance” is it provides no information about what services are available on that instance. At least I know “Mastodon Instance” supports the Mastodon ActivityPub service/infrastructure/application.

Unless there is a pool of available instances that can service users (sounds a lot like pool.ntp.org/Cloudflare/AWS) - it’s important to know what services my instance supports.

Shoq Feb 22, 2023

@amart @fediversereport There is a chart out out there with all the features of the platforms in a grid. I'll find it again.

VegOS Feb 21, 2023

@jeffjarvis @brembs @fediversereport Would be better to focus on the #Fediverse and not #on single networks in the Fedi. They all might go, but the Fediverse will survive. I'm in the Fedi for over ten years an saw them come and go. They are still there, but islands now, e.g. Pump, Diaspora. I migrated through several networks. Remember: #Mastodon does some good work, but is NOT the Fediverse, it is only part of it!

Janet Vertesi Feb 23, 2023

@jeffjarvis @fediversereport @brembs ACM is already doing this, we have an HCI scholars instance up and running thanks to @andresmh and @AmyZhang :) it’s brilliant to have a place to meet our colleagues, exchange ideas and work in progress, and get the pulse of the community.