istartedajoke🌎✌️
The Dread Pirate Roberts"We can't do anything about guns, it's too deeply ingrained in American culture." — Someone currently in a building where they're not allowed to smoke.
4somecurious
@westly well, for smoking they had to prove the impact on health, and that was hard due to lobbying. Given the money behind the military-industrial complex, it could take decades before they prove that guns can actually kill
DaSkinny ⚜️Seems schools, malls, churches, streets, etc., are the, "guns can kill," proving grounds then.
CarlRJ@4somecurious @westly NRA-backed congress members have long kept government-funded agencies from studying the impact of guns on health, to make sure they can’t come up with any damning evidence. Can’t have anything getting in the way of gun manufacturers’ profits.
@carlrj @westly I mean, it's clear that guns have many positive uses besides killing and threatening to kill, and also we should not underestimate the cultural depth and richness associated with them, and how they are used to further promote culture. But still, I think that IF there is a serious possibility that killing people may harm their health, at least some research is needed. Maybe I am overreacting (I also am not an expert of fire weapons, so it's probably my ignorance speaking).
@4somecurious @westly it’s not so much “do guns kill people?”, it’s more like, “what are the scenarios in which people are dying by gunshot, and what patterns are there that we might change in order to save lives”.
Same thing happened with cigarettes - it wasn’t just “is smoking bad for you”, it was “what can we do to reduce the harm caused by cigarettes - what actual changes would have the most benefit?”
Funding to do the same kind of research for guns is always completely blocked by the GOP.
@carlrj @westly ok, I 'll be less subtle: I think that it's insane that common people that are not trained law enforcement officials can carry a gun outside their private home (I have strong doubts it makes sense also for the home, but it is a more complex debate). Do you really need research and funding to say that guns are either useless or used to kill? My take is you (and us, for other reason) are hostages of a dysfunctional system of government deeply rooted in capitalism, to the point that people is blind to even obvious solutions.
@4somecurious @westly which day next week are you planning to start the revolution? And how many people do you have lined up to participate? (No need for exact numbers, you can round to the nearest 10,000).
Unless you have serious answers for the above, we need to talk in terms of working to change the system from within. Getting the government to acknowledge there •is• a problem is one of the first steps.
@4somecurious @westly at the risk of repeating myself, I thought I made it very clear, several times that, no, we don’t need research to show that guns kill people. The research would be to show from a public health standpoint, how guns compare to the other risks in modern society and come up with solutions.
I get that you’d like to round them all up tomorrow. Would you like a detailed explanation of the ways in which that’s unrealistic? It doesn’t matter if it’s a great idea, it won’t happen.
@4somecurious @westly getting outraged, by itself, may be cathartic, but doesn’t solve problems.
I can see a variety of solutions. Most (all?) of them have big giant well-funded roadblocks in the way. What solutions do you propose. Not “what are you angry about?” or “what is a problem?”, but what workable solutions to the problem do you have that we can implement?
If you have this obvious solution you suggest, burning a hole in your pocket, tell us what it is.
@carlrj @westly ok, now I get that my ill-considered attempt at humour has been misunderstood or hijacked for a serious discussion. Didn't expect that much, but indeed I appreciate that. And I agree on the approach to go beyond just complaining and acting instead (that could be still to complain, but with the right persons in the position of affecting the situation, in direction of an achievable goal). But I 'm not sure I'd start from open/concealed carry in USA as the first world issue to tackle. Still, I 'm very interested if you want to share insights on how to approach big scale political issues. I'm no activist, for now I just vote for the lesser evil (not nearly effective) and contribute some donation to few NGOs. I could do more, but I'm also a coward, so... do you have any decently safe/legal ways to progress? towards which goal?
@4somecurious @westly the health and scientific agencies are literally not allowed to do any sort of research into how guns are affecting the US as a public health issue, under threat of having their funding cut off.
The GOP doesn’t want anyone looking into that, because they get a lot of “campaign contributions” from the NRA, which is basically a lobbying firm for the gun manufacturers at this point.
BrassNuckolls 
@westly that part!
Phil Landmeier@westly I hear you. You make a good point. But they are not the same. Having lived through all that, I'll say that it was possible to push smoking to the curb by shunning it and those who practiced it. Shunning works for many things.
It won't work with guns. As soon you get out of the big cities, you'll find that millions of people in this country feed their families by hunting. Food for your family's survival is not the same as an optional addiction to a drug.
I'm all in favor of banning guns but it's not possible here. What's more, growing your own tobacco is difficult. Manufacturing guns is not. Live in Montana or Idaho for a while. Gunsmiths are as common as gas stations and gun manufacturers are everywhere. It's easy for any skilled machinist to make guns and they will. Making it illegal will simply drive it underground but won't change anything.
Shantell Powell@westly @shuttersparks I grow tobacco in a flower pot. But it’s for sacred use, not ciggies.