@alpha1beta But why would armed drug dealers kill anyone over a traffic ticket?

The reason traffic stops turn deadly is because we use them as a pretext for cops to catch more serious criminals. But if it was just a ticket and not a warrant check, roadside search, and other investigations; nobody would care.

As usual, the solutions we’ve been doing cause the biggest problems we face; including how The War on Drugs makes every problem associated with drugs far worse.

@biobrain Because folks who are armed and dangerous and they're forced to ID themselves.

For anyone with anything illegal it'll set off fight/flight.

And to any decent cop, you're going to look much closer if they have a record.

These folks are criminal masterminds, they're drugs are typically in plain sight. The second they see flashing lights they know they're going to ail, and they have seconds to decide what to do

@alpha1beta Everything you're describing is caused by the current system and the scenario you gave would get an armed cop killed the same as a civilian since guns can't stop bullets.

Imagine if criminals knew that cops wouldn't check their record or arrest them even if drugs were in plain site? Why would they risk life in prison or execution over a $100 speeding ticket or expired tags?

Again, our solutions are causing the biggest problems; including the War on Drugs itself.

@biobrain You're also making the assumption that its just minor little tickets and not reckless driving or actions that critically endanger people's lives or that a cop doesn't pull someone over because they see something while they're say returning from another call. What are they supposed to do, call a civilian while a drunk driver continues on?

I get your point. One of my favorite cities in the world (Ithaca, NY) has been trying to do something similar. But it's not that simple.

@biobrain This article has a write up on how Ithaca is proposing to divide duties, missing one that I know was previously mentioned - car accidents would be civilian + EMS as needed. Traffic generally could be handled by both.

https://ithacavoice.com/2022/03/city-introduces-long-awaited-plans-for-department-of-community-safety-in-sweeping-recommendations-report/

@biobrain I'm not generally opposed to it, but there's no way to implement it without causing more harm in the short term.

This plan wouldn't meet your needs, really, cops are still going to be the primary for traffic - their only planning to hire 5 civilians. Honestly, you'd probably be better off telling the cops to put their gun in the trunk instead of their belt.

@alpha1beta All the harm is caused by our current system. We're not only putting civilians at risk of being shot by cops but cops are more at risk too.

And this bill would give national funding for plans like Ithaca's. It's not banning armed traffic stops, but funding civilian traffic cops. And if details need to be worked out, they can.

@biobrain funding = incentives. It doesn't do anything to mandate it. So you end up in a patchwork system that, like in NJ, could have a different response every half a mile of highway. That doesn't work - drug dealers, among other lowlife criminals, aren't smart enough to say oh, this guy's only a civilian let's not run or shoot them.

When I've been pulled over, I haven't always known what agency is doing it and I generally know where I am and am never on drugs or any sort.

@alpha1beta Yes, you're right. Some criminals panic and wouldn't know if a cop is armed or unarmed. An armed cop would die the same as an unarmed cop.

Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Having a gun doesn't protect cops from being shot by someone ready to kill them. That's why they shoot people they even THINK have a gun.

@alpha1beta You're right. Most criminals will run away due to our current system and cops will risk their lives and the lives of civilians trying to stop them for the original crime of speeding or expired tags. And if they shoot, they'll shoot immediately and the cop will die whether or not they're armed.

And cops use traffic stops as a pretext to find other crimes, which makes criminals more likely to be scared.

Why do you keep proving my point? Our current system is the problem.