FadeFeb 5, 2023
Is the sudden drop in traffic on my timeline here lately because people are wandering away from Mastodon again, or because of defederation, or because of DDOS attacks? Whoooo knows? Sigh.
tamaranth 🐀🇪🇺 🇺🇦 🙀Feb 5, 2023
Show threadFade

I am extremely fond of Mastodon. I want to hang out here for a good long time. But I'm seeing a lot of my friends quietly detach from this place because there's so much "here are the etiquette rules for this tea shop, I can't believe you didn't lift your pinky" going around that, well, who has the energy for that these days?

I cope by just ignoring most of that, but then, I've got no following or public career to worry about.

Feb 5, 2023 at 4:10pmWeb
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023

...ah. And apparently if an instance gets completely blocked, even briefly, it severs the follow relationships between any users across the block.

Which explains why some people I thought I was already following (and vice versa) recently followed me, and showed as not being followed by me.

Well that's not great.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023

Okay, this part is actually funny to me: I thought people were blocking me because I was griping about some counter-productive disability activism. But it turns out randos have dramatically blocked me because I noted being tired of the "On Wednesdays we wear pink" nagging. And... I couldn't tell, because they would announce a block, vanish, and because of the vanishing, I couldn't tell what I'd said that they were upset over.

It wasn't even activism! It was pettier than that! Ha.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
In conclusion: we need more Tumblr shitposters around here. And I need to go do some damn Sunday chores while I still have daylight.
Show threadunicorndeburghFeb 5, 2023

@fade I haven't noticed any drop in Mastodon, but I also haven't paid any attention to how many followers I have here.

I'm seeing Twitter users moving to Spoutible -- I'm checking it out, too.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@unicorndeburgh My metric is how long it takes me to catch up on the timeline in the morning. But I think at least 50% of the slowdown there is from DDOS issues.
Show threadunicorndeburghFeb 5, 2023
@fade The big instances were slammed.
Show threadAnne JeffersonFeb 5, 2023
@fade are you on mastodon.online? What defederated? :-(
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@annejefferson I don't know what defederated, which is part of the problem! I'm still seeing wandering.shop stuff, where a lot of my friends are, but I hear mastodon.social got blocked/unblocked, and my timeline got real quiet recently, so I'm wondering if there was a block (or block/unblock) with another instance where I know people, and... HOW WOULD I EVEN KNOW, augh, it's stressful.
Show threadAnne JeffersonFeb 5, 2023
@fade it would be nice if there were any easy way to sign up for alerts about our instance. I’ve contemplated migrating to spore.social but it seems like such a hassle. I worry I’ll lose links even though it’s supposed to be Ok.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@annejefferson I've been planning a move to zirk.us for ages, but I've been waffling because lately I'm posting a lot about pokemon, and how does that go over on a more academic instance? But how would all my posting about academic stuff go over on a game-focused instance? Sigh. I just want to talk about whatever I feel like. I hate feeling like I have to Theme.
Show threadAnne JeffersonFeb 5, 2023
@fade I think your CWs work well. I enjoy a lot of your content, but don't do Pokemon, and the CWs let me scroll by. :-)
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@annejefferson I do try to CW long specific threads!
Show threadYingtaiFeb 5, 2023
@fade I am on zirk.us and I had exactly the same reservations about moving here. But my impression is that nobody minds. :) To be honest, I don't think this instance has a very strong culture of reading the local timeline. And if you look at people's actual profiles and the Exploring tab, we're boosting exactly the same kind of thing as mastodon.social. There is highbrow stuff on the local timeline, but there's also normal fun stuff.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@yingtai This is encouraging! I found some really need people from the Local timeline when I poked around, but I've been feeling shy about committing.
Show threadHeatherFeb 5, 2023
@annejefferson @fade For what it's worth (which might be nothing) I've been very happy with spore.social . I backed the Kickstarter when they were fundraising because I was looking for a place to land. I kept my old account (mastodon.social) going for a bit but eventually migrated and was a pretty straightforward process.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@Habigelo @annejefferson It looks like a neat place! Alas, the ban on all NSFW, even with a CW, makes it unworkable for me. I don't often boost such, and pretty much never post any, but I need to have the option available at times.
Show threadHeatherFeb 5, 2023
@fade @annejefferson very fair. It's not my favourite rule either. I'm finding the collective boundary negotiation process on here interesting. We all come to social media to connect on some level but the nuances of that play out differently for everyone.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@Habigelo @annejefferson And admittedly I shy away from a lot of perfectly reasonable rules that I would almost certainly never break anyway because of the Strikethrough era of LJ: I've seen the "good" rules applied quite aggressively in bad ways, so I end up leery of all sorts of things.
Show threadink and yarnFeb 5, 2023
@fade @Habigelo @annejefferson What I don't know, about rules like "no NSFW even with CW," is whether it applies to boosts - because boosts don't show up on the local TL. (Obviously this would be a question for the server admin.)
Show threadLucyKemnitzerFeb 6, 2023

@emery @fade @Habigelo @annejefferson Wait, boosts don't show up on the local timeline? That seems both counterintuitive & counterproductive.

I'm having a very hard time making mastodon work for me in very basic ways, and it makes me sad.

Show threadink and yarnFeb 6, 2023

@LucyKemnitzer @fade @Habigelo @annejefferson The local timeline shows posts from people on your local instance. As far as I can tell, you see boosts only from people you follow, and they appear in your home TL.

ETA: much in the same way that replies to other people don't show up in the local TL - it only shows original posts from people on your instance.

Show threadLucyKemnitzerFeb 6, 2023
@emery @fade @Habigelo @annejefferson Yes, one of the things I find especially difficult about mastodon is trying to read whole threads and replies. It's pulling teeth to get them all to show. I really want this to work because so many of my friends are here but maybe the federation part is just not for me after all.
Show threadink and yarnFeb 6, 2023
@LucyKemnitzer @fade @Habigelo @annejefferson This may only be working for me because I'm on a computer, not a phone, but I open the post on its original page in a new tab, and then I can see the whole thread/all replies.
Show threadAnne JeffersonFeb 5, 2023
@Habigelo @fade thanks for the recommendation. I also backed the kickstarter but I started the #52LakeChamplain project here and haven’t decided how to best migrate it if I move
Show threadHeatherFeb 5, 2023
@annejefferson neat project!
Show threadpa28Feb 5, 2023
@fade @annejefferson TBH this is why I finally settled on a commercially run instance hosted by what I believe to be a reputable and transparent company. It is nice that there can be instance for people who wear pink on Tuesday but they seem to be as problematic as the bird site. Internet sites will always be a reflection of the people who use them, who will be ultimate selected by people who run them. Commercial ops aren’t better, but tend to be pragmatists.
Show threadCautionWIP 🎃+🇨🇦+🏳️‍🌈= Feb 5, 2023
@fade @annejefferson Limited means individual users can find them and follow them but they don’t show up in the federated timeline, & I believe boosted toots get muted(?) & won’t be seen by others unless they are already following that specific account. It basically acknowledges that they exist, but tries to keep their users’ shenanigans from bothering the locals unless they actively opt in. I’ve only recently gotten into looking at the moderation structures around here so I don’t really know.
Show threadIrinaFeb 5, 2023
@fade I checked whether you and I are still following each other, and yes, we are. Thanks for the warning though!
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@irina Yeah, if I weren't seeing you posting, I'd be wondering if wandering.shop had blocked this instance. Mrf. But I might have just lost connections to a lot of people, and I don't know how I would even tell. And I can't go via Twitter to find people I knew from there on here anymore, either.
Show threadSisuile ButlerFeb 5, 2023

@fade @irina soon, my primary community backup space will be up and running, and I've got enough of my core folk on various discords that I can rebuild if I have to.

I'm just hoping that I don't have to.

Show threadClarissa C. S. RyanFeb 5, 2023
@fade OH yikes
Show threadLinkeFeb 5, 2023

@fade yeah. Some admins are a little heavy handed with the FULL BLOCK button instead of using the “no federation of public feeds, but people can still follow” button.

I had a big argument with some people about that last week. It’s a lot of why I run my own instance.

Show threadTurhan's Bey CompanyFeb 5, 2023
@fade I hardly ever come here because the bulk of the people I want to keep an eye on didn't make the move, but fallout from the etiquette and politics, however valid they may be, are becoming just as much an obstacle to casual use.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@turhansbeycompany Sigh. Yes. And I just discovered that if an instance where I follow people (and vice versa) blocks mine, even if they unblock... all of the follows between them suddenly break. And there's NO ALERT TO IT. So there's no way for me to know that people I follow are still posting, and I could be following them, but I'm not anymore. Or vice versa. Argh!
Show threadKarl-Heinz ZimmerFeb 5, 2023

@fade
THX for this honest statement.

You're blocked now.

Show threadBailey 🌸Feb 5, 2023
@fade I am lucky enough to have not been on here enough to witness any drama, but also would like to be more active, but I thought the discourse was gonna stay on Twitter
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@bailey_writes Twitter discourse was so much easier to ignore. (Possibly because I had uncommented RTs turned off universally, so I never saw the scolding or whatnot unless someone QRTed, which generally raised the quality and nuance...)
Show threadMark Gellis 🇺🇸 🇮🇱 🇺🇦 🌈Feb 5, 2023
@fade Wait...there are rules for etiquette here? 😀
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023

@Mgellis Some people certainly think so!

And honestly, 'hey this is useful to various people' nudges can be nice once in a while. It's how I learned to alt text, on Twitter back in the day. But it can get very... HOA, at times.

Show threadmkbFeb 5, 2023
@fade Yes, god forbid you actually learn the standards of behavior in a new place. Much better to just barge in, do whatever you want, and to hell with cultural norms. Bye.
Show threadArchyDFeb 5, 2023
@fade I think some of it varies by instance. Some instances are way more heavy on the rules than others. You gotta find one that fits the balance of what you like.
Show threadNeo-Athenian EmpireFeb 5, 2023
@fade @ann_leckie The culture that was here before the Twitter migration was so unbelievable stifling and chauvinistic, I can believe it didn't smother Mastodon's growth in the crib.
Show threadOkazuYuriFeb 5, 2023

@fade I took a few days and researched possible instances to join and every one of them that looked interesting had rules that went far beyond "be a non-shitty human" into "this kind of post is allowable under these circumstances only" and I decided to stay on the main instance where I could promote stuff freely.

I have been a moderator - it is extremely complicated and many people spend all their free time finding ways to not follow rules. I sympathize with mods.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@EricaFriedman I have been a forum moderator before, and I have seen beloved well-moderated forums collapse into the ocean on account of owner/moderator energy, or life changes, or just a slow cultural shift over time. It's hard!
Show threadKofi Loves Efia Feb 5, 2023

@fade if they were on Twitter they ignored: doxing, racist piling on, and an army of bots. Yah the tone police are irritating but they're not swating anyone.

Leaving the birdsite has really opened my eyes to what I, and other idiots were willing to swallow to have a following and feel like a big deal.

Show threadJustinmwhitakerFeb 5, 2023

@fade stick it out. It’s a different atmosphere from Twitter, better in a lot of ways…but this is also tends to be a deeply white male and neurodivergent space.

This is where all the Linux, Free/Open Source Software, INFOSEC guys hung out.

They probably think these cultural norms make sense but it only makes sense to them because they were here with similarly minded people before the Twitter Exodus crashed their secret garden.

As the network grows, it will get better.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@justinmwhitaker I do intend to stick it out--but so much of that depends on whether or not the people I follow stick around, because if I'm just shouting into the void, well, I can do that on Tumblr. (Which has the worst conversation interface known to social media, so.)
Show threadJustinmwhitakerFeb 5, 2023

@fade might be better to think of it as a new network to build.

Will everyone leave Twitter? No. Or at least, not until they’re driven out, or it goes into bankruptcy.

Tumblr is an interesting point, because yes, they do suck at social, but they’re building ActivityPub into the backend so it doesn’t suck so much.

So, for a while, it’s Twitter 2006 part 2: shouting into the void (again).

It won’t be that way for long.

Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@justinmwhitaker A lot of the problem for me in void-shouting isn't "still on twitter" but "split up to other places." Post or private Discords or a variety of other places. Much like the LJ diaspora, there are connections I'm just losing permanently, which hurts when they're ones I valued.
Show thread🏳️‍🌈 Baehr🖖Feb 5, 2023
@fade
For some time now I have been actively blocking people who are telling everyone "the rules of Mastodon" -- for my own mental health.
Show threadMike FraserFeb 5, 2023
@fade The old guard really tried to circle the wagons around "Thier Culture". It can definately make this place a bit monotone at times. Luckily a lot of my crowd was sports which doesn't offend many sensibilities.
Show threadAurora B (FKA James D) :firefish:Feb 5, 2023
@fade I'm surprised to hear so much frustration with other users making their desires known. Things like CWs and Alt text were very easy for me to start doing and I appreciated the thoughtful community caring about them

I think you have the right attitude of not worrying too much. It makes me sad to think people are silently quitting these spaces because they are made to feel uncomfortable about what they're posting.

But I also wonder if it's maybe for the best that people who are so bothered by the 'etiquette' aren't the early adopters. By the time they arrive on the #Fediverse the more empathetic of us will perhaps have built even more technical tools to help make this a comfortable place for everyone to socialize.
Show threadFadeFeb 5, 2023
@Jdreben Honestly? The alt text and CW discourse has been pretty damn un-empathetic at times. I've seen very kind and thoughtful people get so stressed out about contradictory instructions and lists of 'must always warn' stuff that they end up never posting anything, which... defeats the point of social media. It's the people who shrug and go "haters gonna hate" who seem to be comfortable sticking around. And I'm not sure that's for the best.