ArclightJan 26, 2023

I was compelled to explain in a large training session that Excel and MathCAD are not, Not, NOT acceptable tools for performing QL-1 nuclear safety calculations.

I absolutely hate that I have to keep explaining this to degreed engineers doing safety-critical work.

Show threadArclightJan 26, 2023
I am going to die on this hill whether I want to or not.
Show threadArclightJan 26, 2023

This just makes me want to cry.

Excel is suitable only for tasks less important than Girl Scout cookie sales tracking. Do not bet anything more valuable than a box of Thin Mints on Excel.

Show threadmhoyeJan 28, 2023

@arclight
Excel is not a spreadsheet. Excel is a full-featured virtual machine running a smalltalk-inspired REPL whose display layer happens to resemble a spreadsheet.

Something like a third of the world’s money goes through Excel every single day, and the reason you don’t think Excel is a Real Programming Language is because if we admitted that, we’d have to admit that most of the most important software in the world was written by underpaid women in pink collar jobs, and we can’t have that.

Show threadokanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin

@mhoye @arclight

Ok, yes, but also no. It isn't just "little old lady in accounting" and that's a dodge. There are privileged white male engineers running giant spreadsheet programs determining the safety of the bridge you drive on with no way to replicate results if they leave the company.

Jan 28, 2023 at 6:35amWeb
Show threadArclightJan 28, 2023
@Okanogen @mhoye And that is precisely the case I'm faced with. There are other problems with how business, management, developers, etc. view Excel users. I'm principally concerned with engineers using Excel for technical work instead of a tool that can be easily verified for correctness. That's the original context of this thread.
Show threadokanogen VerminEnemyFromWithinJan 28, 2023

@arclight @mhoye

"ZOMG! SOMEONE CHANGED THE VALUE IN '[concreteparameters.xlsx]#Constants!$CB$34' FROM "0.64" TO "0.32"! WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? BEFORE OR AFTER WE ORDERED THE BRIDGE ABUTMENT MATERIALS?"
"UH, I don't know, it looks like that value is autgenerated from another sheet that was on Phil Miller's laptop (summer intern let go 4 months ago). Actually, it looks like all the constants are reduced by 50%....".
"FUUUUUUUCCCCKKKK! STOP CONSTRUCTION!!!!!!"
True story. Truthy, anyway.

Show threadwb x64Jan 29, 2023
@Okanogen @arclight @mhoye yeah this is the main issue with excel for sure (next to how easy it is for someone to open it up, mangle a random number of rows, and save it without realizing) and the only reason I'm not militant about it is that the state of other tools isn't too much better (outside of hosted and battle hardened systems whose job is to do and protect such stuff)