“If current trends continue, women & men will be equally represented in the field of biology in 2069. In physics, math & engineering, women should not expect to reach parity for more than a century.“

“The data show that women are systematically denied the chief currencies of scientific credit: publications & citations.”

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674919297&fbclid=IwAR1n_I15VP9IWil1uOoFjUwcxvrm_k9tKfxaAQExVUeaL7kYVGsB4b1zC9w&mibextid=Zxz2cZ #women #science #books

Equity for Women in Science — Cassidy R. Sugimoto, Vincent Larivière

Equity for Women in Science is the first large-scale empirical study of the global gender gap in science. Analyzing millions of scientific papers, the authors show that women are undervalued for their labor in science as measured through publications and citations. The data also reveal how the scientific community can promote equity.

@Sheril I’m all for equal opportunity. But the idea that every profession should be 50% male and 50% female ignores the simple fact that women and men are biologically different.
@MWilson @Sheril That comment is irrelevant #simplefact

By your argument perhaps we could justify only brown eyed people can do maths and blue eyes people do physics. It's a biological difference right?

What about amputees maybe they can do biology better than French people?

Do I sound stupid yet? You do.
@trregeagle @Sheril If you can’t see the fact men are more naturally drawn to certain fields, while women are more naturally drawn to others, then you really have no business calling anyone stupid.
Should 50% of nurses be men? Or, is it only a “problem” when women are below 50%?
@MWilson @trregeagle @Sheril When I was at school, nearly 100% of boys were "naturally drawn" (by the penis, presumably) to elective subjects like woodwork, metalwork, and electronics, while nearly 100% of girls were similarly irresistibly led by their nether regions to study home economics (a euphemism for cooking and cleaning).

I detested woodwork, metalwork, and electronics, partly because they are unbelievably dull subjects, but also because they are an invitation to bullies to bludgeon, cut, burn, or glue parts of one's anatomy whenever the teacher isn't looking. I fancy a lot of girls were likewise less than thrilled with all the cooking and cleaning. Still, all this was perfectly "natural" if you define "nature" as "the status quo".

Now I'm no naturalist, but I gather that this once perfectly natural absolute gender divide between subjects of study no longer holds. For that matter, I know for a fact that fewer than 100% of the boys in my cohort at school remain boys.

The "nature" upon which you depend on for your "simple facts" appears alarmingly malleable. In fact, it seems like the harder you look, the less of it there is to see. Maybe it isn't there at all.

In the absence of any reason that would account for gender disparity within a profession beyond "Well, duh! Girls like girl stuff and boys like boy stuff. Everybody knows that!", I'm sorry to say that it just looks like institutionalised discrimination.

@Sheril @trregeagle @mjd You’re exaggerating my point. Quite a bit.

There are professions which will naturally draw more men than women, and some will attract more women than men. Who cares?

My problem is when people look at a field with less than 50% women and determine it’s a problem that needs to be fixed. The fact no one does this when men are less than 50% says this isn’t about ending discrimination.

@MWilson @mjd @trregeagle @Sheril It is simply incorrect that "nobody" considers the lack of men in e.g. nursing and primary school education a problem.

But one reason people look at the lack of women as a problem is that they want women to have equal access to status and compensation.

Professions dominated by men usually has higher status and higher compensation. Giving men the "chance" to lower status and compensation is a harder thing to argue for.
@trregeagle @mjd @clacke @Sheril My sister is a nurse, makes ~100k/year. Many men earn less than that!
My wife was an accountant and made much more than my sister does. 88% of workers in that field are women.
63% of veterinarians are women.
Never heard of an effort to get more men into any of those highly paid fields.
And the push to get women in college didn’t stop when they passed men:
https://nces.ed.gov/FastFacts/display.asp?id=72
Fast Facts: Degrees conferred by race/ethnicity and sex (72)

The NCES Fast Facts Tool provides quick answers to many education questions (National Center for Education Statistics). Get answers on Early Childhood Education, Elementary and Secondary Education and Higher Education here.

@MWilson @clacke @mjd @Sheril If men retrained as #nurses they could earn the same as your sister, probably more. After all there is tons of evidence that male nurses get promoted more quickly than their female counterparts.

Just because lots of women are nurses doesn't mean men have been excluded. It is more likely men (like yourself?) hold patriarchal beliefs that nursing is a woman's job and don't apply.

Question what you have been taught by the men in your life and reconsider your choices. I did and now I am a nurse.

#nurse #Patriarchy

@trregeagle You’re making some false assumptions.
I never said (and don’t believe) that nursing is a woman’s job. I simply said more women than men are drawn to the profession.

I think it’s a mistake to look at every male-dominated profession as a problem that needs to be fixed. IMO, the best approach is to remove barriers/stigma and let the chips fall where they may.

If the end result is 80% of surgeons are women and 80% of engineers are men, who cares?

@MWilson Jolly good. I am so glad we sorted that out.