@ianwalker There's a certain lack of self awareness there. But we'd expect that - how often do we see motorists dissing cyclists of pedestrians for acting exactly how they act themselves? It's a familiar story in that sense.

@cabd @ianwalker I think you need to treat drivers as addicts (that haven't realised they are addicts it's a bad thing) in your brain when having a discussion about driving less.

@jnbhlr @ianwalker Yeah, maybe. Although even if you're not discussing that, getting folk to acknowledge basic human decency in such discussions is weirdly hard. You'll mention you found a rabbit that had been winged by a car and had to euthanise it, they'll start ultra-defensively telling you about how they flattened a cat and it's just a thing and there's nothing they can do. I think they know, I think at a level they get it...

@jnbhlr @ianwalker or you're taking your waterproof off and fiddling with your bike lights to put them away before a meeting, and they'll start telling you out of the blue why they had to drive there. There's a level of guilt, a level at which they know this is nonsense, but they've GOT to come out swinging in defence of a lifestyle they know to be unsustainable. Deep down, they know this.

@cabd @ianwalker So the question is: How can we turn this level of guilt into positive action instead of defensive (or aggressive) arguments?

@jnbhlr @ianwalker They want their easy lives to continue at almost any cost. The way this has been challenged with heteronormativity and the homophobia associated with it has been by gay folk needing no change whatsoever from straight folk other than not treating them like shit. Homophobia hasn't entirely gone away of course but the change has been huge. Trouble is this is different because we do need a behavioural change here - and I don't know how to create it.