Mastodawn

Nuit Jan 15, 2023

Every time I post objective info about #COVID19, some idiot responds with a variation of “What do you expect us to do, isolate forever?” or “Do you expect society to shut down?”

Black-or-white strawmen arguments drive me crazy. There is a world of things we can do between “pretend COVID doesn't exist” and “lock ourselves away forever.” In fact, if we did those things--safe air in public places, masks & behavior changes when COVID surges--we could control COVID & save the health of millions.

🎯 False dichotomies, driven by disinformation, have impeded our response to the #pandemic, and contributed to people dying/becoming disabled.

Our public heath professionals have largely failed us by communicating poorly too. “Learning to live with” a dangerous virus means understanding the precautionary principle, and using every tool available to prevent transmission so we CAN continue to live our lives. Ignoring and minimizing this virus is what’s prolonging our suffering.

EarthOne Jan 15, 2023

@KimberlyN @augieray Agree, but you left out a major driving point in the race to win First Place for "Most Devoted Death Cult": in America a charismatic sadist convinced tens of millions of his best masochists it's better to suffer and die than to challenge his greedy insanity. They've learned nothing from all their funerals.

AutisticMumTo3 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray
Wearing masks is not the same as lock downs
@WestCoastChelle

Chelle (she/her) 🐸☕Jan 15, 2023

@AutisticMumTo3 @augieray yes, I know? That was the point of the post unless I'm badly misreading it.

AutisticMumTo3 Jan 15, 2023

@WestCoastChelle
Something that has irritated me is people treating mask mandates as if they are lock downs
@augieray

ProgGrrl Jan 15, 2023

Here in New York City, I think there is a huge business to be had in providing some restaurants and theaters that restart the masking and proof of current updated vaccinations for entry. I’d be in there every day!

Augie Ray Jan 15, 2023

@ProgGrrl 18 months ago, I wrote a blog post predicting that businesses would start to compete based on safety protocols. I foresaw restaurants with public CO2 monitors, for example. I am shocked and disappointed I was so wrong. In a world where 80% of people are willing to pretend there is no COVID risk, there's little reason for businesses to offer more safety.

ProgGrrl Jan 15, 2023

So disappointing. In a big city like New York, I wonder what would happen if a group of consumers targeted one or two businesses and asked them to change their policy to this. Maybe start a Covid Safety night once or twice a month for us risk-averse adults only… are we a growing minority with spending power. Maybe that would work. Small steps.

Idealistic Pragmatist

@augieray @ProgGrrl I made the same prediction in July 2020 when I bought my first CO2 monitor. So far I was wrong too, of course. I still hold out some hope that we weren’t wrong, though, we were just premature.

ProgGrrl Jan 16, 2023

@IPEdmonton @augieray

if there was a nightclub in New York City, walls covered with Hepa filtration systems and CO2 monitors you could walk up to and read… enforcing fully up to date vaccination records at the door… I would be there every night!

Sex Crazed SaltShaker of Death Jan 15, 2023

@augieray And putting the policies and infrastructure in place would help with the next virus that comes down the pike.

eyrea 🇨🇦Jan 15, 2023

@augieray I'm not a doctor, but I still think if we planned for and executed a short lockdown (3-4 weeks) it would help immensely. It's just never happened. Even during the official lockdowns, I had co-workers going to family birthday parties and other large gatherings, and just not being willing to understand that broke lockdown.

OlafWipper Jan 15, 2023

@augieray i am living proof. Live in NYC, a hotbed of covid frequently. Wear a mask when I leave my apartment and only remove when I am out of doors or back at home. Had all covid vaccinations and have never had covid. I am lucky, no doubt. But if I didn’t wear a mask when in public spaces I doubt I would be so lucky.

Valerie Jan 15, 2023

@OlafWipper @augieray same here. I’ve had some really great times these last few years and whenever I recall any event never does the fact that I had to wear a mask come to mind. If I hadn’t worn a mask I’d have stayed home and missed out. I take small calculated risks now and again straight after booster shots and take more precautions as the vaccine loses its efficacy.

n0body Jan 15, 2023

@augieray The internet taught me, through a painful learning process, that people lash out at nuanced takes on complicated matters. There's something Machiavellian about it. (Machiavelli wrote that one must always take a side in any debate).

rjf_berger Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Exactly!

Ronald Hemenway Jan 15, 2023

@augieray You cannot tell those idiots what to do! When they die from HOVID, they will blame US for their death. Stupid SAYS as stupid DOES! They have to seek the TRUTH themselves!

1Mar𝒵ipan Jan 15, 2023

@augieray I like Augie's position on this. Covid isnt black or white.. the solutions for us all lie in tolerance and finding the middle ground.

Marian Gladstone Jan 15, 2023

@augieray
👇👇👇
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/10/15/edfd-o15.html

The historical background of the COVID-19 pandemic and the fight for global elimination

This report was given by Evan Blake to the Seventh Congress of the Socialist Equality Party (US) in support of the resolution titled “The COVID-19 pandemic and the fight for socialism”

World Socialist Web Site

A Concerned Scientist Jan 15, 2023

Purposeful misinformation spread to people who can not think critically enough to understand the situation is the lowest hanging fruit for the people who manipulate "public sentiment" for their own gains.

Thomas Jan 15, 2023

@BE @augieray that's obviously the case - the art and science of propaganda is well grounded in the weakness of the human mind. In fact, one can learn a lot about human intelligence by analysing what works iff people have no training in critical thinking (especially regarding their subjective set of beliefs).

Sofia ☭🇧🇷☭Jan 15, 2023

@augieray also the reason we're having to mitigate forever is that the initial response was so half-assed. We could have done a lot more back in 2020 and it would have sucked but the pandemic would have actually ENDED

@martlund 🌲🐶🇸🇪🇨🇱🌈Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Unfortunately, they also vote and have children

Phil Rees Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Sorry to say that sounds like our Public Health Officer.

https://youtu.be/a5iuSI0DrC0?t=3424

B.C. health officials provide update on respiratory illnesses

YouTube

marca56 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray right-- this is just dopey zero sum logic. It’s possible to be careful and live your life. But there are a certain segment of the population who are aggressively anti-facts, anti-science and they are loud. Ignore them.

Martin Farrent Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Yes, but they aren't just 'idiots'. When it comes to safety, we tend to want absolute rules, rather than degrees of probability to ponder over endlessly. This leads to questions like: "Why should I don a mask in a supermarket when I don't wear one in a restaurant?" (At the bottom of this, there is obviously real fear - hesitation to unmask in a cafe when you wouldn't on a bus. And there are only two ways to combat that fear when you disregard the accumulative nature of risk.) #covid

Peace Covey Jan 15, 2023

@augieray 👏🙏👏🙏 well said!

catraxx Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Yeah but the poor money! Think of the poor rich people!

@augieray I do lots of stuff. I go out all the time. I teach. I go to events. I do research on mitigations and I mask. It’s incomprehensible how much people hate just putting a damn little tiny mask on for a bit. The tiniest inconvenience.

InsufficientC8H11NO2 Jan 15, 2023

@hacks4pancakes @augieray
Unless they're criming under the guise of "patriotism".

kira :3 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Nothing about managing covid properly is hard to understand or do

Palin Jan 15, 2023

@augieray
It's just too hard for them to wear a mask to protect other's......
Until they get it then they need a go fund me.

Dave Swersky Jan 15, 2023

@augieray This is the salt rubbed into the wound for immunocompromised people. Just asking for basic human decency and consideration earns them/us gaslighting and accusations of demanding "special treatment"

RMJ Jan 15, 2023

@augieray PREACH!

Bethany Jan 15, 2023

@augieray THIS!!! 100%

AliSnarkbar Jan 15, 2023

@augieray No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!!

admarcus1 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Agreed. It drives me crazy. Somehow, asking someone to do anything, no matter how mild the inconvenience, sis conflated with living under prison condition. Also makes me crazy that many who resist even the smallest intrusion are quite happy to put restrictions on others.

Heather Jan 15, 2023

@augieray indeed! as a data point, I feel pretty safe in Taiwan and Thailand.

because *we mask* - most people in Taiwan, and many Thais, are still wearing masks.

Bruce Fulton Jan 15, 2023

@augieray What do you expect us to do about influenza, get an updated vaccine every 12 months?

Augie Ray Jan 15, 2023

@dbfulton crazy, huh?

Dave MacFarlane Jan 15, 2023

@augieray I would like people who jump straight to "what do you expect us to do, isolate forever??" to isolate forever. It's not required for COVID, it would just make the world a really nice place if they weren't around.

InsufficientC8H11NO2 Jan 15, 2023

@driusan @augieray
Please!

Dave Weinstein Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Because we've decided not to invest in the relatively low cost things that will help us against all airborne diseases, people who do want to (or need to) avoid Covid have to resort to far more draconian steps.

Soozcat Jan 15, 2023

@augieray There's a particular kind of binary mind that will accept only one solution or none at all.

Justinmwhitaker Jan 15, 2023

@augieray the Alt-right, and let’s face it, the anti-vaxxers are by and large alt-right, don’t do nuance, and they are too selfish to think in terms of public good.

InsufficientC8H11NO2 Jan 15, 2023

@justinmwhitaker @augieray
Lack of critical thinking skills is a commonality between the groups.

EarthOne Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Not to mention, the amazing reports from extreme air-polluted cities in lockdown of how they went from choking air quality to clear skies should have taught us SOMETHING. I'm beginning to think the human species design is so flawed we are unable to learn from the obvious in face of the oblivious.

@augieray I try to ignore idiots. If necessary, I say something like “I am not judging your risk evaluation and mitigation. Why are you judging mine?”

Morgana Jan 15, 2023

@augieray People have been taught that the easiest way to maintain not thinking and not interacting is to be negative and fearful…… Your suggestions work well with common cold, influenza, Legionnaires Disease and most of the other respiratory viruses…..what is so difficult about washing your hands, masking as necessary, having air filtration and being considerate of others…..

InsufficientC8H11NO2 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray
It would have been a non starter if people weren't willing to watch others suffer. Alas...

𝓐𝓷𝓭𝔂𝓣𝓲𝓮𝓭𝔂𝓮 𓀤 Jan 15, 2023

@augieray Could improved air circulation ever be enough for indoor bars and restaurants? Masking isn't much help there, since it is impossible to eat or drink with a mask on.

Spencer W Hunter Jan 15, 2023

@andytiedye @augieray
No, but it is possible to eat & drink without breathing:
https://mstdn.social/@swhunter7/109270112143073170

Spencer W Hunter (@[email protected])

Indoor dining post from Twitter: https://twitter.com/swhunter7/status/1577004483225100290?s=21&t=nh7VZ2vpTaLXA6LBaGEP8A I am more-or-less compelled to indoor dining once/wk. To protect myself & others, I hold a GATA cup-style respirator to my face with my left hand, and drink/eat with the right w/o breathing. I practice the “exhalation purge” the military recommends when changing gas masks.

Mastodon 🐘

@augieray well said. I deal with this attitude with work clients. It's frustrating because I'm not supposed to lose business for the company, but I can't not-respond when I hear that all-or-nothing attitude.

ryaninteractive Jan 15, 2023

@augieray since this started I like to ask the only question that matters.

How many deaths are OK? How many deaths are too many? Give me a number.

“We need to save the economy.”
How many deaths are OK with you to save the economy?

“School need to be in person.”
How many dead kids, teachers, staff are OK with you for kids to be in school?

“Workers need to return to the office.”
How many dead employees are OK with you for workers return to the office.

People really don’t like that question.