Mastodawn

@aral Even today you can't choose not to be recorded by someone else's tesla, and it's a bit like Gmail: it doesn't matter whether you own one if enough people around you do.

@marcink @aral how do you create a security system - like Sentry mode or a dash cam - where the perpetrator of a crime can’t opt out of being caught on camera?

@Smutchings @aral
How do we value privacy vs car safety? Should we allow people to park their mobile security/surveillance systems in shared spaces? Does wanting to protect someone's [luxury] property justify dismissing privacy concerns? How would people feel if cars were obligated to display "SENTRY MODE / RECORDING" in big, red letters on all sides when cameras were on, both in motion and when parked?

@marcink @aral it’s not just cars that have cameras on them, so the luxury part is redundant.

There are everyday people who wear bodycams for their own safety and protection - pedestrians and cyclists. How does their safety feature in the equation?

Most people are good actors, but how do we address the fact that there are bad actors out there?

@Smutchings But I am asking specifically about cars. The issue of balance between safety, security, and privacy is complex and highly contextual: a camera in someone's yard is not a body cam protecting a person is not a 360-degree multi-cam sentry mode protecting a car parked in a random place, the trade-offs are completely different.
Also, sending recordings to a (hypothetical) org with good record of caring about privacy is not the same as sending them to a company controlled by Elon.

Smutchings

@marcink the recordings are stored on the car. And are only stored when an issue has been determined by the car, and with a big message displayed on the car’s infotainment screen.

The recordings are not stored on Tesla’s servers, and remote viewing is done by a direct connection to the car.

Misinformation on these technologies hurts your cause, it doesn’t help.

@marcink a blog post outlining the three stages of Sentry Mode: https://www.tesla.com/blog/sentry-mode-guarding-your-tesla

An image of sentry mode telling you it’s enabled. https://hevcars.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tesla-sentry-mode-review-hevcars.jpg

Sentry Mode: Guarding Your Tesla | Tesla

Tesla

@Smutchings Their privacy policy explicitly names camera recordings as "autopilot data" and grants Tesla permission to gather those for the purpose of improving autopilot. "Limited to 30 seconds" but without saying how many of those per day or week; I don't really believe they would just do a continuous transmission in half minute segments but the policy doesn't seem to prevent that.
So it effectively hinges on the company's word that it won't abuse it.

@marcink the question is, do you currently have the right to privacy when you’re walking around public spaces? In most cases, the answer to that is no.

There’s nothing stopping me - beyond perhaps courtesy - taking a photo of you walking down a road and then uploading that photo anywhere.

These systems operate within that reality.

The same as all camera-based systems - security or otherwise.

@Smutchings
This whole conversation started with a post suggesting we need to change the law. A response to the effect of "this is the law now" is irrelevant.
Those systems operate in the reality where corporations have all the incentives to blur the lines between different kinds of concessions of privacy, ignore the difference between individual and mass/corporate, and in the end claim it's too complex to regulate and therefore we should just trust them. Which is usually a bad call.